AfterWorld Survival Forum
Discussions => Knowledge Database => Topic started by: Caliopus "Calio" Jones on May 15, 2013, 12:54:18 pm
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Only been playing ~6 months, so there's a lot more that I don't know than I do.
Chipped out my mining skills (geology, nature, geo propecting, landscape, etc) so I can keep on picking and raise the picking skills that also raise mining high enough to get past 82 freq and on to ores that are actually worth mining. My Geology was at 5 when I chipped out to go back to geology 3 and I've since added enough to geology that it would probably be ~7 if I put the chip back in (and it will probably be a lot more when the time actually comes to put the chips back in). I notice on the wiki that geology skill only applies to picking and to no other skill.
So, my question is: when the time comes to put the chips back in, what is the point of unblocking geology once 5 is completed? Since there is no advantage thatI I can see to spending sau on training geology to 6, 7 and however much higher my chips will potentially make possible, why spend the sau on doing so?
Geology 3 opens geo prospecting, 5 is already paid for with sau, but why go higher?
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I think you are right - Geology is only used in Picking, and is therefore valueless once you have unlocked Geol. Prospecting.
I have chipped out Strength, Nature, Geology and Landscape Comprehension, and not yet Geol. Prospecting, but I hope the bugs in the underground mining will be fixed in the next update so I will then chip Nature back in.
Looking at the limited skill overlap, I don't think Picking will raise the UG mining profession very quickly. I've done some UG mining in NU to start getting those skills.
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Geology and Knowledge give you the ability to identify ores and alloys.
There's many levels to the ores: NU stones, Sar stones, yellow scanner ores, green and red scanner ores. I believe every frequency is a separate "ore class".
It's not known what skill (or their combination) exactly contributes how much to this ability.
U can test i yoursef however, ask around if anybody has some gold to show you in the trade window (no need to actually trade anything). Alternatively, you can try to look it up on the market. If there's some gold up for sale, see if the actual ore itself is displayed as "Gold" (with the corresponding icon), or simply as "Unknown ore".
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Your first and third sentences contradict. How can this be tested without a lot of chipping?
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I'm not sure if i understood correctly, but Firstly, if you are just keeping your skill at a level by chipping out, and you dont think you need that skill, then that skill SNIs that you are creating becomes a source of income for you because it is probable that someone may buy it for awd on the market. Secondly, you should never let your skills be blocked if you have a choice. Either 1, chip out, or 2, unblock. Either one, to continue making the skill, and also blocked skills effect your sau gains. If you have blocked skills in a "profession" then using that profession, you will get less sau than if they were unblocked.
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I've seen Geology SNI's on the market, but for the reasons already given, I think they are worthless. In fact Geology has negative value because you have to keep chipping it out to keep picking.
But interesting that if a skill is blocked, Sau gain is reduced.
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I'm not sure if i understood correctly, but Firstly, if you are just keeping your skill at a level by chipping out, and you dont think you need that skill, then that skill SNIs that you are creating becomes a source of income for you because it is probable that someone may buy it for awd on the market. Secondly, you should never let your skills be blocked if you have a choice. Either 1, chip out, or 2, unblock. Either one, to continue making the skill, and also blocked skills effect your sau gains. If you have blocked skills in a "profession" then using that profession, you will get less sau than if they were unblocked.
I didn't think the geology SNIs were worth anything simply because anyone and everyone can get to lev 3 (to unlock geo prospecting) easily themselves. But thank you for confirming something I suspected but was never sure about. When I was still fighting slugroaches to get the first few levels of avoids I noticed that sau gain rate seemed to drop off when I had blocked skills (a little with 1 blocked, more with 2 blocked and a lot when I had 3 blocked - I was trying to be efficient about making the runs to sar and was waiting till I had 3 to do before I went there).
I guess there is also the point that the fifth entity makes about being to identify ores with higher geology levels, so I guess there is value to raising the skill beyond the level 5 I already unlocked when I insert the SNIs back in.
BTW, can anyone tell me exactly which picking skills raise scanning/mining also. I've been guessing that geo prospecting, landscape interpretation, general tools and nature do. Am I correct? Are there any others that contribute significantly?
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The brave new generation! :)
O well, the game is pretty much self-explanatory, all u need is just a little trial-and-error testing.
Besides, this is the fun part, it's much more interesting to figure it out on your own. Sry, no more spoilers, keep it up guys! ;)
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BTW, can anyone tell me exactly which picking skills raise scanning/mining also. I've been guessing that geo prospecting, landscape interpretation, general tools and nature do. Am I correct? Are there any others that contribute significantly?
A rough guide can be found here: http://jaws.99k.org/ (http://jaws.99k.org/)
or you can search the forum where there are full lists.
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About the sau, it's true :) a few months back i bought a few chips that caused me to be have several blocked skills in my medic profession. So, what did i do.. I had taken my careful time to get hka5 to 100% sau rate, figured oh i would chip out again when it was at 90% (just wanted sau from the hk, not interested in the hk skills so much anymore) and then viwala.. with 100% sau rate, i was making 1-2 sau per use.. i knew something was wrong, so i asked the devs about it in a helpdesk ticket and they explained to me what no one else ever told me haha. after having the skills unblocked i made between 4-6 sau each use and often enough, more than that.
well, stage 15 is a 50% sni, i think. so why not unblock to there, and from then on out, chip out at stage 15. 1awd. I am CONfident that you can sell a 50% geology sni for a bit more than 1awd :) if anything i'll buy it for 2awd, you'll make a 100% profit ;)
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Hmmm. The Jaws.99k.org link event horizon posted seems to indicate that geology affects metal and mineral mining, not just picking. Can anyone confirm that that they got geology skill from mining?
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here is the zwarkinator version - https://my.afterworld.deelogic.net/survival/knowledge-database/professions-and-skills/ (https://my.afterworld.deelogic.net/survival/knowledge-database/professions-and-skills/)
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Zwarkinator's version is very accurate but it only reflects the existing professions, ug mining doesn't have it.
Jane's (EventHorizon) version has UG mining and it reports Geology - unlike any other research i've seen before.
Suppose the difference is in methodology - all ug mining related tests i've seen so far simply logged the skillgains while ug mining ("what comes out has to go in"-logic). Jane might have used a different method thou, i.e. chipping in/out and recording the changes in scanner efficiency, maybe? If so, that would explain a different result.
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The UGM Professions are certainly screwed up. In-game, and on Wiki, there is only one, whereas Jane deduced in Alpha that there are separate ones for Metal and Mineral. But AWS doesn't give skill gains for Metal/Mineral Science or Metallurgy/Mineralogy, so we are back to one. Refining of course has two. It seems the developers can't decide which way to do it.
Are there any other Professions where the skills you get for using it are different from those which contribute to the Profession level? It would be an odd design if that were true.
I haven't had any Geology whilst UG mining, so I have to think Jane is simply wrong to include it. But I haven't had any Landscape Comprehension either.
I put in a Helpdesk ticket about the skills just after the last update, which has had no response for 2 months. I do hope the developers make their minds up in the next update, and then we can re-measure things.
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I put in a Helpdesk ticket about the skills just after the last update, which has had no response for 2 months.
It's secret information, players need tp explore AWS world theirselves.
While UG mining, you gain Landscape Comprehension, but never Geology.
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About the sau, it's true a few months back i bought a few chips that caused me to be have several blocked skills in my medic profession. So, what did i do.. I had taken my careful time to get hka5 to 100% sau rate, figured oh i would chip out again when it was at 90% (just wanted sau from the hk, not interested in the hk skills so much anymore) and then viwala.. with 100% sau rate, i was making 1-2 sau per use.. i knew something was wrong, so i asked the devs about it in a helpdesk ticket and they explained to me what no one else ever told me haha. after having the skills unblocked i made between 4-6 sau each use and often enough, more than that.
It's well known information, that's why devs helped Zaelkaer. It doesn't mean they will explain the skill and profeccion system of AWS. This huge work is doing by several old players. Thx them a lot! :)
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I put in a Helpdesk ticket about the skills just after the last update, which has had no response for 2 months.
It's secret information, players need tp explore AWS world theirselves.
My Helpdesk ticket was not to ask about secret information, it was to ask why the skills gained had changed from what everyone agrees happened in Alpha, and to point this out in case it is a bug.
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The UGM Professions are certainly screwed up. In-game, and on Wiki, there is only one, whereas Jane deduced in Alpha that there are separate ones for Metal and Mineral.
Er... to clear up a little misunderstanding - there is no profession in-game for UG mining. What you are looking at must be a profession for above ground mining (picking) or gathering resources from plants/trees. No doubt the UG mining profession itself has to exist in the skillsystem, because scanners have no problem measuring your current effectiveness in UG mining. So, it's a hidden profession. Two hidden professions actually - a separate one for metals and minerals because your effectiveness on mineral scanner and metal scanner can be quite different.
That part is pretty simple and straightforward, the actual skill weights is where it gets a bit more complicated. It's possible that Jane might be wrong, or maybe she's the only one who got it right - we won't know it for sure until we know a little more about how she arrived to these conclusions.
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The UGM Professions are certainly screwed up. In-game, and on Wiki, there is only one, whereas Jane deduced in Alpha that there are separate ones for Metal and Mineral.
Er... to clear up a little misunderstanding - there is no profession in-game for UG mining. What you are looking at must be a profession for above ground mining (picking) or gathering resources from plants/trees. No doubt the UG mining profession itself has to exist in the skillsystem, because scanners have no problem measuring your current effectiveness in UG mining. So, it's a hidden profession. Two hidden professions actually - a separate one for metals and minerals because your effectiveness on mineral scanner and metal scanner can be quite different.
I did already know all your points. As you say, the profession of Natural Resources Hunter as listed in Zwarky's thread contradicts Jane's guide, so the design was already confused in Alpha. I suggest this has been aggravated by a new bug in AWS, that the metal/mineral skills have been omitted from UGM, effectively collapsing the two hidden professions into one. So describing how the system worked in Alpha is pointless, because firstly it seems to not work that way now, and secondly it needs to be redesigned anyway. Where are the developers?
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Bertram, take my word for it, u still only barely scraching the surface of what there is to know and understand.
Also, you did not know my points before, and you still haven't understood em... :(
Developers are where they have to be - working with the code, engine optimization, 3D models... stuff like that.
Like Andrei already pointed out, it's NOT their job to explain to every player how exactly the skillsystem works. You don't have to know it to play the game.
What about metals science and minerals science, afaik those were never gained while using UG scanners. Nothing has broken down or collapsed anywhere...
Well, i'm not a miner myself thou, i would certainly appreciate if some high level miner would take a look at their skill log and comment on that.
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it's NOT their job to explain to every player how exactly the skillsystem works!!
easy ok
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Bertram, take my word for it, u still only barely scraching the surface of what there is to know and understand.
Also, you did not know my points before, and you still haven't understood em... :(
If you understand things so well, please explain why Natural Resources Hunter exists, when Jane says it has no effect, and why two professions exist which do have an effect, but are hidden.
You sound like Candide, everything is for the best, even when it is nonsense.
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Eeeeuuww ???
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If you understand things so well, please explain why Natural Resources Hunter exists, when Jane says it has no effect, and why two professions exist which do have an effect, but are hidden.
MOSK and MiSca can show different Skill-Rate,
on that Reason it can't be the NRH Profession
even if it get's near to the "right" result.
Greetings - Zwarky
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...umm yeah..
the only thing that shows MISCA different from MOSK is the separate skills .Pyrotechnics, and Blastechnics ,each one is for one scanner and r not both for both, if anyone can opserve the skill stages they can see a difference in them, diferent grow, so... different SR
cheers
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My apologies for not jumping in sooner.
I had to try to find my original data (spread between two laptops, a PC and a few external drives) ... which contradicts what I have posted on the JAWS website.
It appears I have cross-referenced the wrong skills at some point.
The UG Metal skills list should have this:
| Accurate Eye |
| Attention |
| Chance |
| Concentration |
| Data Analysis |
| Electronics |
| Focus |
| General Tools |
| Geological Prospecting |
| Information |
| Intellect |
| Interface |
| Knowledge |
| Landscape Comprehension |
| Logic |
| Luck |
| Materials Science |
| Materials Technology |
| Nature |
| Pyrotechnics |
| Response |
| Scanning practice |
| Science |
| Terrain Orientation |
And the UG Minerals should have this:
| Accurate Eye |
| Attention |
| Blasttechnics |
| Chance |
| Concentration |
| Data Analysis |
| Electronics |
| Focus |
| General Tools |
| Geological Prospecting |
| Information |
| Intellect |
| Interface |
| Knowledge |
| Landscape Comprehension |
| Logic |
| Luck |
| Materials Science |
| Materials Technology |
| Nature |
| Response |
| Scanning practice |
| Science |
| Terrain Orientation |
I am still searching for the files I used to build the site with.
Once I find these - I'll be able to rebuild the pages with the correct information.
Note: the data I used for mining has been gifted to me rather than gained though actual mining.
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The way I think about the Metal/Mineral Science skills, it makes sense that you'd get those skills while refining stones and not while using scanners. When you scan for and find metals/minerals, you learn nothing new about the resources themselves other than their locations and amounts. But when you refine them you are concentrating them from raw rock to condensed and compressed ingots, so you learn a lot more about their physical and chemical makeup in the process.
Thus, you get Metal Science skills for refining metals but not for scanning for them. And you get Mineral Science skills for refining minerals but not for scanning for them. The extractors do the actual work of digging them out of the ground and physically interacting with the buried stone, so if there were skills in using them (which may be why they suddenly stop working from time to time) we'd get Metal/Mineral Science skills for activating and detaching them (along with a slew of others, I imagine).
Maybe they were in the process of introducing extractor skills when this whole financing fiasco hit?