Author Topic: Quarantine Ore Pricing... Pickers Opinions Needed (Read 2961 times)

Menhl "Mephistopheles" Morningstar · « **on:** March 10, 2013, 04:58:12 pm »

Quick question dudes...

Trying to get a handle on quarantine rock prices, having a few problems. What are the average prices people have been seeing lately? (Last 4 or 5 days).

Also, from what I've seen/ been offered recently, I've noticed tons of common stones (mostly copper, sulfur) trading at below 7 awd per stack. Pardon my ignorance, but why are people selling stones for less than the value of the loot it provides (which to the best of my understanding is two 3.5 awd p notes per ton of quarantine ore)? Obviously this will greatly increase the price of ore, but this seems the fairest base price I could reach via my very unscientific calculations/ reasoning. I love low prices as much as the next guy, and Im always looking for the best value for my awd, but 2awd per stack versus 7 is quite the difference. Am I overlooking something obvious?

Gebeleizis "Hultaan" Kapnobatai · « **Reply #1 on:** March 10, 2013, 05:57:40 pm »

i dont know but as a personal note the stones , will not wort ever more than 5 lead 4 nitre 1,5 others per ton, what is now is a lack of players to sell and another thing is nothing outhere to hunt so basicaly the stones r not requested for ammo/clones,and no1 is spending his clones atm, just the accidental deaths
everyone thinks that the stones r only for Pnotes, witch is a bad asumption, ofc r good for that too, but when hunting will start the price will be more close to reality, and will be disperate peolpes always who r willing to pay more than others in order to get what they need,

so as a conclusion , is a bad moment to buy stones, exept u have specific something in mind and u r willing to pay more than worth,

Event "Janе" Horizon · « **Reply #2 on:** March 10, 2013, 07:56:45 pm »

As Hultaan implies - Citizens in Alpha didn't buy stones for Pnotes. There are more valuable uses for them (e,g, refining skills, terminal usage skills, ammo manufacture etc)

The stone collection ratios seem to be unchanged in Survival.
The relative cost of each stone is revealed here: http://talk.afterworld.ru/?showtopic=5407#entry38810.

Note: there does not seem to be a subzone 3 in Survival (and it is not needed as other subzones contain the same stones - in different ratios)

Note: the AWD value per stone/subzone are for a citizen @ pick efficiency of 79%. A newcomer will collect less stone per pick and therefore should be looking for a higher price. You can workout the newcomer costs from the later posts (or you can wait until I rework my figures and present them in the Knowledge section later).

Don "Roberto" Roberto · « **Reply #3 on:** March 10, 2013, 08:35:54 pm »

Quote from: Menhl "Mephistopheles" Morningstar on March 10, 2013, 04:58:12 pm

Quick question dudes...

Trying to get a handle on quarantine rock prices, having a few problems. What are the average prices people have been seeing lately? (Last 4 or 5 days).

Also, from what I've seen/ been offered recently, I've noticed tons of common stones (mostly copper, sulfur) trading at below 7 awd per stack. Pardon my ignorance, but why are people selling stones for less than the value of the loot it provides (which to the best of my understanding is two 3.5 awd p notes per ton of quarantine ore)? Obviously this will greatly increase the price of ore, but this seems the fairest base price I could reach via my very unscientific calculations/ reasoning. I love low prices as much as the next guy, and Im always looking for the best value for my awd, but 2awd per stack versus 7 is quite the difference. Am I overlooking something obvious?

I am a picker, not a buyer, so here you have my opinion:
The price of an item, be it irl or ingame, IS ALLWAYS the price other people are willing to pay for it (for different reasons), sometimes very far from what the seller wants... considering this:
1.you can ask for 7 awd/tonne for common ores for ages, if buyers are not willing to pay that, they won`t... if they are willing to pay (again, for different resons), believe me, they`ll offer you that price or even more
2.only a few of the buyers use the stones to get p-notes, and these do it only because it`s cheaper (please note that even p-note price is set by what ppl are willing to pay for it...); there are other uses for ores, as some1 else already mentioned, so people are paying what they are willing to pay, considering the uses of the ores
3.from a buyer point of view, they can ask in a different way: why paying 7 awd/tonne for an item that costs 0.85-1.7 awd/tonne to produce?
4.you can`t consider only the production cost or only the potential loot.. it`s like cleaning a banker house (yes, you`re saving him time) and asking for $300k/year only for cleaning, because he can go to his well-payed job and possibly make even more money...
5.no one is forcing you to sell under 7awd, get p-nottes and sell them yourself, you`ll see how this works...
in the end, the stones price depends less on the very few buyers who get p-notes, and much more on the many other uses and benefits:
refining skills, ammo crafting (as Jane already mentioned), time saved for buyers and so on... the price depends on what people are willing to pay, considering ALL these factors and some others... ofcourse, the picker can refuse what they are willing to pay, but will eventually get what other people are willing to pay.. it`s the basic rule of offer and demand....
again, I`m a picker, every1 who met me ingame also knows I`m picking heavily, but this doesn`t make me go crazy with my prices

Gebeleizis "Hultaan" Kapnobatai · « **Reply #4 on:** March 10, 2013, 11:10:49 pm »

As da Event mentioned , the rate is same, the amount is same, the picks do same ration as efficiency, the players r let say the same number more or less, so why should i pay more than in the older days? i bought allot right before AWS to be lounched whitout knowing what will come approx 450 tons of Q stones for a better price, yet the market is offer and demand

Quote from: Event "Janе" Horizon on March 10, 2013, 07:56:45 pm

The stone collection ratios seem to be unchanged in Survival.

Note: the AWD value per stone/subzone are for a citizen @ pick efficiency of 79%. A newcomer will collect less stone per pick and therefore should be looking for a higher price. You can workout the newcomer costs from the later posts (or you can wait until I rework my figures and present them in the Knowledge section later).

Apsolutely soo friggin true what Roberto said

Quote from: Don "Roberto" Roberto on March 10, 2013, 08:35:54 pm

IS ALLWAYS the price other people are willing to pay for it (for different reasons), sometimes very far from what the seller wants... if buyers are not willing to pay that, they won`t... if they are willing to pay (again, for different resons), believe me, they`ll offer you that price or even more....

But i will never ever pay those actual prices, not in this life , exept a really bad emergency ( and that must involve clones somehow) and this because is sick for me as a player who can pick 2.1 tons Q stones / hour,... so for me buying means i want to do something else than picking, but ( personal ) it seems i have no choice here than spend from time to time 4-5 h to pick what i need for the precious clones

Is crazy to pay for a clone the average price of ( 6 awd / ton stones = 3 awd pnote = 96 micronotes beast = 9 micro/clone beast = 10 clone/pnote) and that if a laggy session/ big mobs hunting can easy eat 1 pnote/ hour...not talking about ammo from same stones witch in my case as a ZB-11 user means 26/shot = 1,2 sec reload = 50 rounds/min = 1,3k ammo/min = ~75 mins of hunting for 100k ammo ( 16 awd craft cost / 20 awd for1,2t nitre,0,8t lead,0,8t pharr,0,4 sulphur, 0,4 coal,0,4 copper ) = ~2 hours whit the traveling time included witch means allot for something that is called Q stone value..strict my point of view

Event "Janе" Horizon · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2013, 01:30:24 am »

Quote from: Gebeleizis "Hultaan" Kapnobatai on March 10, 2013, 11:10:49 pm

...
Is crazy to pay for a clone the average price of ( 6 awd / ton stones = 3 awd pnote = 96 micronotes beast = 9 micro/clone beast = 10 clone/pnote)
...

Though I am not disagreeing with you that a death payment is strangely annoying ...
My experience of a maxed Steel pick is as follows: at best ... 0/100% steel pick= 0.85 AWD = 1T of stone = 2 pnotes = 192 micropnotes = 21 clones = 24 clones per AWD.
Time wise: 42 clones per hour.

Menhl "Mephistopheles" Morningstar · « **Reply #6 on:** March 11, 2013, 02:04:11 am »

Ah, I had not considered that:

`Despite the potential value (say two notes per ton), all stones arent intended for pnote conversion and its unreasonable to attribute all ore production to pnote conversion

`Pricing ultimately comes down to the perceived value of the object at the moment of transaction

`One must weigh production cost of ore versus/market offering

`A sudden increase of price of that magnitude would motivate stone buyers to invest their time into harvesting their own ore, driving down price via decreased demand/increased supply

`Most of the older population of AW (self included) would lay an egg/brick/foreign object if they had to pay 7 awd per ton for common ore...

I honestly hadn't considered all that, along with a slew of other rational points that Hultaan/Event/Rob pointed out.

Appreciate the clarification guys!

By all means, please feel free to continue this discussion, I'm in the process of writing out a business plan for an ore exchange service for newcomers, and would love to hear additional viewpoints/ considerations into q stone ore pricing.

Zaelkaer "Allfather" Vampyre · « **Reply #7 on:** March 11, 2013, 04:42:56 am »

the lead price of 5 is totally fine with me as is the nitre price of 4, but the all else of 1.5 seems a bit low to me. for a citizen with skills of course its still no problem, but for a nookie, a price of 1.5 per ton, with steel pick price of 0.85, that means 566 kg of ore to trade for 1 0/100 steel pick.. which is exactly how much a newcomer can get with a steel pick (maybe slightly less or more) but a newcomer gets roughly 500kg out of a steel pick, which makes the 1.5 a little low.

note though, that with a maxed out pick (lets say even sau rate of 10% and falling) the above prices are still at a profit, all 5,4,1.5. because at roughly 1 ton per steel pick (citizen with skills of course), thats less than 1awd for 1 ton. So if you look at it this way, lead for 5, nitre for 4, and others for 1.5, is still at profit.

just saying for newcomers its closer to breakeven for the cheaper ores..
Allfather

Event "Janе" Horizon · « **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2013, 04:47:27 am »

Actual stone costs are listed here: https://my.afterworld.deelogic.net/survival/knowledge-database/stone-costs/msg6848/#msg6848

Andrei "Andrei" Popov · « **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2013, 01:21:43 pm »

Why everyone says one rep of pick gives 1t for skilled players???

My pick has 95% effectiveness lvl and skilling/sau rate 5%.
As far as i understand, the effectiveness of my pick is the highest possible. I get only about 800kg from 1 rep of a pick.

Zaelkaer "Allfather" Vampyre · « **Reply #10 on:** March 11, 2013, 04:08:51 pm »

Quote from: Event "Janе" Horizon on March 11, 2013, 04:47:27 am

Actual stone costs are listed here: https://my.afterworld.deelogic.net/survival/knowledge-database/stone-costs/msg6848/#msg6848

when i clicked the link i got "
An Error Has Occurred! The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you."

Quote from: Leo "Tesla Coil" Raateland on March 11, 2013, 04:56:15 am

For me personal i feel prices are pretty much twisted. If you take in account some people can get AWD for 50% cheaper than others did and doing. Not even sure if the developers still accept deals like this. I can image a scenario present day where people email the developers about wanting to do a 1000 dollar donation as long they get 50% extra AWD.

This is not yet confirmed by anyone but it would be a fair shot for most these days to make such a deal with the developers. So some people can spend like 5000 AWD on a 15000 AWD donation and still have 10.000 AWD left from their 1000 dollar donation.

With other words, "AWD became less valued since the 150% offer on your donation"
A lot of people traded AWD for PED or PED for AWD on a 1:1 rate in the old days but that model seems to be destroyed with the implementation of the 150% offer on your donation by the AWS developers.

It would not be strange to see prices rise more, also on other stuff like skills.

Hm i understand your angle of perspective but from my understanding that was a one time deal, and perhaps in the future they would do it again, or maybe not. I've seen that before in other games. It creates a "deal so good that you Have to donate" in effect it helps the devs get a lot more money than they usually would.. as for a few players getting a little more awd and having that raise the world economy prices i think that may be a little too far... i don't see how the prices depend on how much currency is floating around. Whether there is 20k awd or 200k awd, it still takes x amount of "whatever" (time or items or resources) to aquire a certain amount of somehting, and i think the prices are dependent on this. The harder things to get are worth more. Whether someone has money or not i fail to see how that increases or decreases the cost of something. Just because Bill Gates has 50 millions or billionsor whatever, that doesn't change the price of a mercedes from 100k to 1,000k. .....

Quote from: Andrei "Andrei" Popov on March 11, 2013, 01:21:43 pm

Why everyone says one rep of pick gives 1t for skilled players???

My pick has 95% effectiveness lvl and skilling/sau rate 5%.
As far as i understand, the effectiveness of my pick is the highest possible. I get only about 800kg from 1 rep of a pick.

I haven't actually tried it out, maybe i will, just to see exactly how much i get from 1 rep with my effectiveness. For some reason i just assumed that axes and picks were the same, maybe they're not

-Allfather

Event "Janе" Horizon · « **Reply #11 on:** March 11, 2013, 06:53:56 pm »

Quote from: Zaelkaer "Allfather" Vampyre on March 11, 2013, 04:08:51 pm

Quote from: Event "Janе" Horizon on March 11, 2013, 04:47:27 am
Actual stone costs are listed here: https://my.afterworld.deelogic.net/survival/knowledge-database/stone-costs/msg6848/#msg6848

when i clicked the link i got "
An Error Has Occurred! The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you."
...

I get the same :-o
The topic has disappeared from the Knowledge section
I'll recreate the post at a later date ... the post was flawed anyway.

Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton · « **Reply #12 on:** March 11, 2013, 09:26:46 pm »

Quote from: Zaelkaer "Allfather" Vampyre on March 11, 2013, 04:08:51 pm

Quote from: Leo "Tesla Coil" Raateland on March 11, 2013, 04:56:15 am
For me personal i feel prices are pretty much twisted. If you take in account some people can get AWD for 50% cheaper than others did and doing. Not even sure if the developers still accept deals like this. I can image a scenario present day where people email the developers about wanting to do a 1000 dollar donation as long they get 50% extra AWD.

This is not yet confirmed by anyone but it would be a fair shot for most these days to make such a deal with the developers. So some people can spend like 5000 AWD on a 15000 AWD donation and still have 10.000 AWD left from their 1000 dollar donation.

With other words, "AWD became less valued since the 150% offer on your donation"
A lot of people traded AWD for PED or PED for AWD on a 1:1 rate in the old days but that model seems to be destroyed with the implementation of the 150% offer on your donation by the AWS developers.

It would not be strange to see prices rise more, also on other stuff like skills.

Hm i understand your angle of perspective but from my understanding that was a one time deal, and perhaps in the future they would do it again, or maybe not. I've seen that before in other games. It creates a "deal so good that you Have to donate" in effect it helps the devs get a lot more money than they usually would.. as for a few players getting a little more awd and having that raise the world economy prices i think that may be a little too far... i don't see how the prices depend on how much currency is floating around. Whether there is 20k awd or 200k awd, it still takes x amount of "whatever" (time or items or resources) to aquire a certain amount of somehting, and i think the prices are dependent on this. The harder things to get are worth more. Whether someone has money or not i fail to see how that increases or decreases the cost of something. Just because Bill Gates has 50 millions or billionsor whatever, that doesn't change the price of a mercedes from 100k to 1,000k. .....

Agreed, the amount of money available to a select few players does not flood the whole economy with more money per player so there is little cause to worry about inflation from this alone.

Quote from: Zaelkaer "Allfather" Vampyre on March 11, 2013, 04:08:51 pm

Quote from: Andrei "Andrei" Popov on March 11, 2013, 01:21:43 pm
Why everyone says one rep of pick gives 1t for skilled players???

My pick has 95% effectiveness lvl and skilling/sau rate 5%.
As far as i understand, the effectiveness of my pick is the highest possible. I get only about 800kg from 1 rep of a pick.

I haven't actually tried it out, maybe i will, just to see exactly how much i get from 1 rep with my effectiveness. For some reason i just assumed that axes and picks were the same, maybe they're not

Actually they are not the same right now. Steel Axes do not decay at the same rate as Steel Picks at the moment. This may be a "feature" related to the fact that trees don't disappear or it may be a bug that needs to be fixed. Either way the decay difference is not the same as it was in AWA.

Zaelkaer "Allfather" Vampyre · « **Reply #13 on:** March 11, 2013, 10:26:35 pm »

If someone were to measure the decay on the axe and the pick, it's then an easy process of effectiveness (amount per swing ave.) x decay.. I suppose i could do it, just not sure when. Maybe someone has done it already?

Axle "Axle" Platinum · « **Reply #14 on:** March 12, 2013, 03:06:20 am »

My haul for 100% of a pick with 100% effectiveness and skill rate of 3% is 828.1 kgs

Cheers

Axle
p.s. 100 effect just popped on with this load so will update if any change on my next pick

pps did another run and got 828.5kg with 96% effectiveness

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Author Topic: Quarantine Ore Pricing... Pickers Opinions Needed (Read 2961 times)

Menhl "Mephistopheles" Morningstar

Quarantine Ore Pricing... Pickers Opinions Needed

Gebeleizis "Hultaan" Kapnobatai

Re: Quarantine Ore Pricing... Pickers Opinions Needed

Event "Janе" Horizon

Re: Quarantine Ore Pricing... Pickers Opinions Needed

Don "Roberto" Roberto

Re: Quarantine Ore Pricing... Pickers Opinions Needed

Gebeleizis "Hultaan" Kapnobatai

Re: Quarantine Ore Pricing... Pickers Opinions Needed

Event "Janе" Horizon

Re: Quarantine Ore Pricing... Pickers Opinions Needed

Menhl "Mephistopheles" Morningstar

Re: Quarantine Ore Pricing... Pickers Opinions Needed

Zaelkaer "Allfather" Vampyre

Re: Quarantine Ore Pricing... Pickers Opinions Needed

Event "Janе" Horizon

Re: Quarantine Ore Pricing... Pickers Opinions Needed

Andrei "Andrei" Popov

Re: Quarantine Ore Pricing... Pickers Opinions Needed

Zaelkaer "Allfather" Vampyre

Re: Quarantine Ore Pricing... Pickers Opinions Needed

Event "Janе" Horizon

Re: Quarantine Ore Pricing... Pickers Opinions Needed

Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton

Re: Quarantine Ore Pricing... Pickers Opinions Needed

Zaelkaer "Allfather" Vampyre

Re: Quarantine Ore Pricing... Pickers Opinions Needed

Axle "Axle" Platinum

Re: Quarantine Ore Pricing... Pickers Opinions Needed