C214 - Player's dots on the radars "shift" when they are not moving

[Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton]

I was standing still collecting wood in Saransk and noticed that some of the dots on the radar that mark other players were shifting up and down a bit as I swung my axe. I asked one of the players that appeared to be moving on my radar and she said that she was standing still and so was the player near her. She said she had noticed other players' dots shifting a bit too while collecting wood. I tried moving around the tree to different locations and noticed that in different spots different radar dots would move and others would stay still.


Below is a side-by-side of my radar while the only part of me that was moving was my axe (I was standing still the whole time). It's difficult to see, but the two lower-left dots move up one pixel any time the reload bar filled past the 50% mark.

[Axle "Axle" Platinum]

I think you will find that these players are chopping trees and as far as i know no-one could do this without a bit of movement 

Cheers

Axle

[Serenity "SerenityFireFly" FireFly]

I think you will find that these players are chopping trees and as far as i know no-one could do this without a bit of movement 

Cheers

Axle

funny axle.... considering the arms move and upper body moves forward is what each avatar does when stood axing a tree NOT auto running, were  as i aswell as Brickwit have noticed peoples green/purple/yellow dots move forward and back as if the avatar was walking forward for 5 seconds and back... i agree this is a bug Brickwit as when players are stood on the one spot they shouldnt be looking like there running/glitching back and forth.. so dismising this as not a bug is wrong. GL

[Axle "Axle" Platinum]

i must apologize if you read my reply wrong i didnt say it wasnt a bug , i have noticed the same thing.

Cheers

Axle

p.s. also happens in NU when you have pickers on your radar

[Windslow "Windslow" Warrior]

Using the degree system of measurement with a scope, maybe calculating the players foot position during each swing will help players understand why the dots move on the mini map. Players are actually moving their position.

[Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton]

If players are actually moving while chopping a tree or picking a rock (which doesn't happen to my feel while doing these tasks unless I press a movement key) then I would expect that all of the dots on the radar showing chopping/picking players would "dance" in this way instead of just one or a few. If they are all moving all of their dots should be moving but if none are then none of their dots should. Either way there is an inconsistency that needs to be resolved.

[Alyx "Daisy" Johnson]

It could simply be rounding: the calculation to points on the radar may be close to the border between pixels. depending on what order the calculation occurs will translate between pixel 1 and pixel 2. Not knowing the exact calculation, we cannot say why a pixel moves

You also have to consider, with the fog of war efefct, then we cannot always be 100% certain where an object is... Is it 100m or 99.99m? Only the AW Server will know for sure, and it's up to us to interpret the radar. take a look at this or Радар to see problems radar can have. I would point to Noise as the major factor, and Clutter (especially if there are multiple people around) as a secondary factor

[Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton]

It probably is related to rounding or something like it. I've seen it happening most in Sar in area where I have very little or no fog left on my map, but I can't be sure that it isn't intentional. Whether it is or isn't many of us consider it a bug and will continue to feel that way unless Dr.B or Vik tells us it isn't. At that point I think the conjecture and theory can really begin in earnest. 8-)

[Event "Janе" Horizon]

Question - what did Alpha do?
Did the red dots stay static if players were picking rocks in QA1?
Is the mob movement in the radar as  smooth in Survival as in Alpha?

[Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton]

Ah yes, that's the point I forgot to make. This movement is different from both AWA and earlier versions of AWS. There was no way to continuously collect resources in AWA as what we can do currently with trees but people using iron picks in QA1 would stay at whatever rock they were picking for quite a while and I never saw any similar radar movement. In fact I can't think of ever seeing radar dots repeatedly moving back and forth by one pixel even when someone was moving around.

I've also never seen similar radar movement from mobs that lasted more than a second or two while this went on for a good while at the time that I took the screen shots.

[Event "Janе" Horizon]

I think you will find that these players are chopping trees and as far as i know no-one could do this without a bit of movement 

Cheers

Axle

Axle may be on to something here.
Experiment:

• find the stationary pink dot that is the NPC at the foundary
• move tiny steps until the pink dot shifts
• move a tiny step back until the pink dot shifts again
• equip either an axe or a pick
• ensure that you have zoomed away from your avatar (i.e. your avatar is in view)
• use axe/pick
• observe that the pick dot moves
• observe that the pick dot moves as the head moves forward and back

Note: if you are in 1st person mode (your avatar is not in view) - the pink dot does not move.
Note: a pixel on the radar = 3.33 m x 3.33 m area of  Survival


Conclusion - the radar is attached to the players head ... if the head is very close to the 3.33 m boundary ... as the the head moves forward the distance to the NPC crosses over the 3.33 m boundary causing the pink dot to move.


The implication of a player standing still and the other players moving back and forth 1 pixel - implies that the player is actually moving. However, I suspect either the radar is measuring distance to the other players head; or the bounding box around the player moves slightly with the player movement (though this is not apparent when you use the HUD highlight option).


This should only be visible at certain distances - once observed ... moving forward/backwards slightly should cause certain players to stop shifting.


It would be interesting to see if the effect stops if you are in 1st person view rather than zoomed out (couldn't find anyone chopping trees to find out )

[Axle "Axle" Platinum]

Also to take into account is types of other dots, some standing still , some chopping, some waiting to repair some running ,some running with lag then include stationary npc's and the moving npc's. Also if you are swinging, those that are in unison with you and those that are not.

Cheers

Axle

[Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton]

The time that I took the images was when all dots on the radar were players actively chopping trees. I look around at the different players to be sure of what I was seeing. The dot closest to me is bigger than the rest because there were three different players standing side-by-side chopping the same tree, though not with synchronized movement.

Singularity's theory about minute distance differences seems to make the most sense to me since I would see different players dots moving when I would move around the tree I was chopping. My distance from them could cause their radar dots to be right at the border between a closer and a farther pixel away. But the fact that it was so easy to repeat the bug tells me that there is a calculation off somewhere, though probably only by an amount tantamount to a rounding error. And whether we are in first-person or third-person view, our avatars are always leaning forwards and straightening up as viewed by other players so the view should not make a difference if there is no real bug.

[Windslow "Windslow" Warrior]

Bit harder to test now. Where have all the lumberjacks gone!!! LOL 

[Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton]

"If you nerf it, they will leave..." 8-D