AfterWorld Survival Forum
Officials => Tech Forum => Topic started by: oOoOo "Mantra" oOoOo on January 08, 2013, 07:01:53 pm
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Is one single rifle skill gained by using Sieger = one single rifle skill gained using zb8+ ?
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they are the same. What affects is the skill rate gain you have in each gun.
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Use of an item increases the level of skills within that item's profession (http://wiki.afterworld.ru/wiki/Category:Profession) - this increases the efficiency of that item.
And as many professions share skills - an increase in one professions skills can leave to an increase in another professions skills - giving you the ability to use the other profession items more efficiently.
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If a single skill gain from higher weapon would be more progress, than players wont take skills out just for skilling on lower weapons.
I believe the game would be better this way.
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Is one single rifle skill gained by using Sieger = one single rifle skill gained using zb8+ ?
If I understand your question right you're asking about individual "Gained experience in Rifle" messages, right? The answer is yes; it does not matter whether your are using a Sieger or a ZB8+ , every "Gained experience in Rifle" message increases your Rifle skill by the same amount. And it doesn't matter what your SGR is when you get a skill gain message, but the SGR does effect how often you get the messages.
I agree that higher items should give more skill gain per message to provide a strong incentive to keep climbing the skilling ladder.
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If a single skill gain from higher weapon would be more progress, than players wont take skills out just for skilling on lower weapons.
I believe the game would be better this way.
All items work under the same criteria.
You have a choice of either skilling on the right weapon for your skill level; or chipping out to maintain a lower weapon
If you choose to skill on the right weapon ... then you need to jump from one to another:
(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx230/janesavon/rifle_skill_rates.png)
The above graph represents skilling rate v.s. Profession Fire-Arm Rifleman level.
(source: http://talk.afterworld.ru/index.php?showtopic=5824&hl=rifle_skill_rates (http://talk.afterworld.ru/index.php?showtopic=5824&hl=rifle_skill_rates))
The advantage of this is that you have the possibility of getting more valuable loot as you skill up.
The disadvantage of attempting to maintain your profession level at a certain level by chipping out one skill - is that other skills will still increase, these will impact on other items; and will eventually need to be chipped out.
This may be of use to you: http://jaws.99k.org/Skill%20Advice/_index.html (http://jaws.99k.org/Skill%20Advice/_index.html)
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Is one single rifle skill gained by using Sieger = one single rifle skill gained using zb8+ ?
If I understand your question right you're asking about individual "Gained experience in Rifle" messages, right? The answer is yes; it does not matter whether your are using a Sieger or a ZB8+ , every "Gained experience in Rifle" message increases your Rifle skill by the same amount. And it doesn't matter what your SGR is when you get a skill gain message, but the SGR does effect how often you get the messages.
I agree that higher items should give more skill gain per message to provide a strong incentive to keep climbing the skilling ladder.
yep higher items should give more skill gain
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Is one single rifle skill gained by using Sieger = one single rifle skill gained using zb8+ ?
If I understand your question right you're asking about individual "Gained experience in Rifle" messages, right? The answer is yes; it does not matter whether your are using a Sieger or a ZB8+ , every "Gained experience in Rifle" message increases your Rifle skill by the same amount. And it doesn't matter what your SGR is when you get a skill gain message, but the SGR does effect how often you get the messages.
I agree that higher items should give more skill gain per message to provide a strong incentive to keep climbing the skilling ladder.
i agree also.
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(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx230/janesavon/rifle_skill_rates.png)
I don't really understand this picture, but it is so scientific and professional, I decided to believe anything Singularity say. 8)
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I don't really understand this picture, but it is so scientific and professional, I decided to believe anything Singularity say. 8)
Что тут не понятно?
По оси X мы имеем возрастающие параметры SGR (SR остаётся в 100%). При падающем графике - уменьшающиеся параметры SGR, на разных видах оружия, обозначенных цветными линиями.
Для большего роста умений выбираем следующее оружие при достижении им единицы по оси Y (100% SR). Для максимальной экономии SAU, переходим на следующее, при пересечении падающей цветной линии Вашего оружия.
И так.. По оси Y - мы имеем при возрастающем графике - 100% SR, а SGR в соответствии шкалы X. При падении шкалы по оси X - мы имеем оптимальную точку для перехода на следующее оружие.
И так, как человек не может всё сделать один, предлагаю: Помочь определить значения оптимального выбора следующего оружия. Ведь Jane не может всё делать за Вас.
И уж, извините, что всё по-русски, просто на английский я, простую арифметику даже, не переведу)
Удачи всем!)
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([url]http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx230/janesavon/rifle_skill_rates.png[/url])
I don't really understand this picture, but it is so scientific and professional, I decided to believe anything Singularity say. 8)
This picture describes how the skill-system works atm.
You have hitted the nail on it's head thou. There's already a certain difference in weapon reload times--higher weapons in general are faster, therefore they give more skills too. But that's not an universal rule, there's too many exceptions, it doesn't realyy cut it, doesn't solve the problem.
So indeed, all skillgains should not be equal, higher items should either give more skillgains--or alternatively, their skillgains should have more "weight". No need for a difference by a magnitude, just a slight but clearly noticeable difference, enough to give people a choice--either use more costly gear and skill faster or do it cheap but waste a lot of more time.
That's where other similar games have ended up, and i believe AW won't have any other choice than eventually follow the same road... one way or another.
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skill gains on higher weapons already have more weight imo: one tick (afaik one skill check = half a percent of a stage) equals more SNI volume (skill points) when gained on a higher stage compared to a low stage.
as it is now the system works fine in my eyes: a noob can use a high weapon but has a lower skill rate (chance for skill checks) than on a lowbie weapon - since leaning has to be done from the scratch. before one can master über items one has to learn the basics with small ones.
however, seems like the chance for a skill check is equal per click - be it a fast or slow weapon. so a low dmg high reload weapon skills faster than a high dmg low reload weapon, provided both have the same skill rate %. that should be adressed somehow, to make skill checks hand in hand with dps rather than reload.
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I agree that higher items should give more skill gain per message to provide a strong incentive to keep climbing the skilling ladder.
This is a perfect expression of why I started this topic. Players taking skills out going back to lower weapons for more eco/faster skill gain. This kills the market for higher weapons - less AWD spent of crafting. I would love to see a comment from Devs on this subject.
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([url]http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx230/janesavon/rifle_skill_rates.png[/url])
I don't really understand this picture, but it is so scientific and professional, I decided to believe anything Singularity say. 8)
lol - or blush - whichever is most appropriate.
Updated original post with more details.
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At an items 100% skilling rate ... isn't the average skills gained per use the same per item irrespective of item used?
Resulting in the effort per skill level as per below:
(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx230/janesavon/skill_level_effort_zps3ebc7943.png)
If each higher profession item gains more skills quicker than one prior to it - what you are proposing is to make the graph a linear line. i.e. if it takes you 1 month to get from level 0 to level 10 then it will take you 6 months to get to level 60 (instead of 20 months).
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I think the current system is well thought-out. However in the future, to accomodate high-end players, more difficult mobs will need to be introduced so that they can continue to gain skills. At the moment everything is in balance, I think. Yes, many players tend to stick with low weapons, and chip out to accumulate skills. But this also means they can't do other things. There are trade-offs on both ends of the spectrum.
The Allfather
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skill gains on higher weapons already have more weight imo: one tick (afaik one skill check = half a percent of a stage) equals more SNI volume (skill points) when gained on a higher stage compared to a low stage.
I don't understand how a skill check can be equivalent to a particular amount of skill. Did you mean to say "one skill gain = half a percent" instead of "one skill check?" If so then I have to disagree. The higher the stage, the more skill gains it takes to raise the stage by 1%. If every skill gain was always 0.5% of a stage gain (as it is for skills at lower stages), then it would take 200 skill gains to reach each new stage. Instead the number of skill gains to reach each stage increases steadily. I'm not sure if the increase is linear or exponential but it seems more likely to be the latter than the former.
At an items 100% skilling rate ... isn't the average skills gained per use the same per item irrespective of item used?
This seems to be the way it works in my experience, yes.
If each higher profession item gains more skills quicker than one prior to it - what you are proposing is to make the graph a linear line. i.e. if it takes you 1 month to get from level 0 to level 10 then it will take you 6 months to get to level 60 (instead of 20 months).
It would certainly change a lot of people's minds on the "best" way to gain skills if the line was linear instead of exponential, but I don't think the adjustment needs to be quite so extreme. A small increase in the amount of skill gained for each higher weapon - but smaller that the increase in skill gains needed to reach each new stage - would provide enough incentive for may (or most) people to decide to progress in item use instead of chipping out.
On a side note, I think the biggest incentive of all is better and more valuable loot from harder-to-kill mobs. I get the feeling that it will be a long while until the full complement of loot items is implemented though so a good stop-gap would be adjusting the skill gains from higher-level items.
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If each higher profession item gains more skills quicker than one prior to it - what you are proposing is to make the graph a linear line. i.e. if it takes you 1 month to get from level 0 to level 10 then it will take you 6 months to get to level 60 (instead of 20 months).
It would certainly change a lot of people's minds on the "best" way to gain skills if the line was linear instead of exponential, but I don't think the adjustment needs to be quite so extreme. A small increase in the amount of skill gained for each higher weapon - but smaller that the increase in skill gains needed to reach each new stage - would provide enough incentive for may (or most) people to decide to progress in item use instead of chipping out.
Most people do not realize how much effort is actually required to get to higher levels (i.e. that currently getting from level 54 to level 55 takes 156 times more effort than getting from level 1 to level 2.
So some reduction in effort would be nice - however, this should not be restricted to weapons (there are many professions in Survival - each having the same issue).
Of course, rather than change each items skill rate (so that a level 54 item gives 15600% more skills than a level 1 item) - the other option is is change the professions so that there is more overlap in item skill rate.
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I agree that changes should be across the board for all skill ladders and I think you're right that the easiest, cleanest, and best way to adjust it would be to reduce the amount of additional skill gains necessary at higher skill stages.
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It would certainly change a lot of people's minds on the "best" way to gain skills if the line was linear instead of exponential, but I don't think the adjustment needs to be quite so extreme. A small increase in the amount of skill gained for each higher weapon- but smaller that the increase in skill gains needed to reach each new stage - would provide enough incentive for may (or most) people to decide to progress in item use instead of chipping out.
On a side note, I think the biggest incentive of all is better and more valuable loot from harder-to-kill mobs. I get the feeling that it will be a long while until the full complement of loot items is implemented though so a good stop-gap would be adjusting the skill gains from higher-level items.
This would be great!