Author Topic: Where do allegations of multiple accounts? (Read 3679 times)

Teesa "Teesa" Fisher · « **Reply #15 on:** October 13, 2012, 12:11:17 am »

I stocked up the slugroaches until I had enough for a few P-Note Globals back when I was in my first month of playing. Man alive, who wanted to keep running back to the P-Note dude every so many minutes? It's called smart play if you ask me. Like Madseend said, it took time to build up the stock.

Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton · « **Reply #16 on:** October 16, 2012, 03:45:23 am »

Quote from: Teesa "Teesa" Fisher on October 13, 2012, 12:11:17 am

I stocked up the slugroaches until I had enough for a few P-Note Globals back when I was in my first month of playing. Man alive, who wanted to keep running back to the P-Note dude every so many minutes? It's called smart play if you ask me. Like Madseend said, it took time to build up the stock.

You're absolutely right, it's extremely smart and more efficient to "save up" when you're collecting slugroach corpses. When you're collected tons and tons of stones? Not quite as efficient, especially when you consider that the person that caused this thread to be opened in the first place started at less than 10 P Notes collected, meaning that the person was very probably either a newcomer or a very new citizen. As we all know, newcomers and new citizens have no skills at all or very few skills to speak of, which in turn means that it takes them much longer to collect stones and their max carry weight is 500kg or close to it. I don't know about you, but the idea of spending hours and hours and hours just collecting stones to throw into storage until the point where there's enough for 30 or more P Notes is just about emotionally impossible! Without the rewards of the P Notes I don't see how anyone could keep picking and picking and picking without selling any of their stacks for steel picks (considering how often nitre and lead come up as the required stone for any given WO).

The person could have bought all or some of the stacks, but isn't it almost always cheaper just to buy P Notes directly? Or are slugroaches back in AWA's QA1, making my whole argument about stones moot?

The "Fifth" Entity · « **Reply #17 on:** October 16, 2012, 07:48:40 am »

AWS slugs are big as a schoolbus, only light green not yellow

https://my.afterworld.deelogic.net/survival/index.php/topic,660.0.html

Event "Janе" Horizon · « **Reply #18 on:** October 16, 2012, 08:09:47 am »

I've done research into the cost, in picks, of all the QA1 stones:
http://talk.afterworld.ru/?showtopic=5407

And used that as a guide for citizenship by Pnotes:
http://talk.afterworld.ru/?showtopic=5447
One interesting point a player made (Payday) is that Citizens that gain Pnotes cheaply by trading stones with Newcomers - resulting in a win-win situation. Implies that someone has done their sums and found that this trade & fast burning of pnotes with a Newcomer is worthwhile.

Teesa "Teesa" Fisher · « **Reply #19 on:** October 17, 2012, 12:23:18 am »

Quote from: Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton on October 16, 2012, 03:45:23 am

As we all know, newcomers and new citizens have no skills at all or very few skills to speak of, which in turn means that it takes them much longer to collect stones and their max carry weight is 500kg or close to it. I don't know about you, but the idea of spending hours and hours and hours just collecting stones to throw into storage until the point where there's enough for 30 or more P Notes is just about emotionally impossible! Without the rewards of the P Notes I don't see how anyone could keep picking and picking and picking without selling any of their stacks for steel picks (considering how often nitre and lead come up as the required stone for any given WO).

The person could have bought all or some of the stacks, but isn't it almost always cheaper just to buy P Notes directly? Or are slugroaches back in AWA's QA1, making my whole argument about stones moot?

I was only speaking of my experience and I sure don't jump to the conclusion someone's cheating when I see a global for P-Note after P-Note or SAU for that matter. I know I've helped a few newcomers in QA1 trading them stones for some picks or buying their stones and shortly after they'd global P-Note at least twice in a row. I can't speak for others, but I would do what has to be done which is hours upon hours picking to get the whole P-Note thing over with. I'm not the type that gathers enough loot just for one thing (ie to collect 1 P-Note, to make 1 gun, etc.). I'm there for how ever long it takes, I do realise that it would be hard to know how many stacks of a variety of stones would be harder to figure, but not impossible, compared to how many al rivets are needed to craft just 1 gun and you need to make 20 guns.

For me to come to the conclusion someone's cheating in-game takes a lot! Coming from the legal field, I look at all angles before pointing a finger and reporting someone. Using myself as an example here: I would hope if I was to be reported by someone thinking I have more than one account they would have more than the global messages for P-Notes to report because according to the global message that we all receive that means I'd be banned immediately. I'm not saying there's not some out there that has more than one account, but I don't know.

I'm not at all saying anybody jumps to conclusions, just stating that I don't. I don't think slugs are back for P-Note gathering, but I don't know that for sure. Been awhile since I've made a trip to the farm.

Zen "ZenX" Star · « **Reply #20 on:** October 17, 2012, 01:48:24 am »

Quote from: Teesa "Teesa" Fisher on October 17, 2012, 12:23:18 am

Quote from: Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton on October 16, 2012, 03:45:23 am
As we all know, newcomers and new citizens have no skills at all or very few skills to speak of, which in turn means that it takes them much longer to collect stones and their max carry weight is 500kg or close to it. I don't know about you, but the idea of spending hours and hours and hours just collecting stones to throw into storage until the point where there's enough for 30 or more P Notes is just about emotionally impossible! Without the rewards of the P Notes I don't see how anyone could keep picking and picking and picking without selling any of their stacks for steel picks (considering how often nitre and lead come up as the required stone for any given WO).

The person could have bought all or some of the stacks, but isn't it almost always cheaper just to buy P Notes directly? Or are slugroaches back in AWA's QA1, making my whole argument about stones moot?

I was only speaking of my experience and I sure don't jump to the conclusion someone's cheating when I see a global for P-Note after P-Note or SAU for that matter. I know I've helped a few newcomers in QA1 trading them stones for some picks or buying their stones and shortly after they'd global P-Note at least twice in a row. I can't speak for others, but I would do what has to be done which is hours upon hours picking to get the whole P-Note thing over with. I'm not the type that gathers enough loot just for one thing (ie to collect 1 P-Note, to make 1 gun, etc.). I'm there for how ever long it takes, I do realise that it would be hard to know how many stacks of a variety of stones would be harder to figure, but not impossible, compared to how many al rivets are needed to craft just 1 gun and you need to make 20 guns.

For me to come to the conclusion someone's cheating in-game takes a lot! Coming from the legal field, I look at all angles before pointing a finger and reporting someone. Using myself as an example here: I would hope if I was to be reported by someone thinking I have more than one account they would have more than the global messages for P-Notes to report because according to the global message that we all receive that means I'd be banned immediately. I'm not saying there's not some out there that has more than one account, but I don't know.

I'm not at all saying anybody jumps to conclusions, just stating that I don't. I don't think slugs are back for P-Note gathering, but I don't know that for sure. Been awhile since I've made a trip to the farm.

Good post Teesa!

Event "Janе" Horizon · « **Reply #21 on:** October 17, 2012, 04:52:03 am »

Quote from: Teesa "Teesa" Fisher on October 17, 2012, 12:23:18 am

Quote from: Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton on October 16, 2012, 03:45:23 am
As we all know, newcomers and new citizens have no skills at all or very few skills to speak of, which in turn means that it takes them much longer to collect stones and their max carry weight is 500kg or close to it. I don't know about you, but the idea of spending hours and hours and hours just collecting stones to throw into storage until the point where there's enough for 30 or more P Notes is just about emotionally impossible! Without the rewards of the P Notes I don't see how anyone could keep picking and picking and picking without selling any of their stacks for steel picks (considering how often nitre and lead come up as the required stone for any given WO).

The person could have bought all or some of the stacks, but isn't it almost always cheaper just to buy P Notes directly? Or are slugroaches back in AWA's QA1, making my whole argument about stones moot?

I was only speaking of my experience and I sure don't jump to the conclusion someone's cheating when I see a global for P-Note after P-Note or SAU for that matter. I know I've helped a few newcomers in QA1 trading them stones for some picks or buying their stones and shortly after they'd global P-Note at least twice in a row. I can't speak for others, but I would do what has to be done which is hours upon hours picking to get the whole P-Note thing over with. I'm not the type that gathers enough loot just for one thing (ie to collect 1 P-Note, to make 1 gun, etc.). I'm there for how ever long it takes, I do realise that it would be hard to know how many stacks of a variety of stones would be harder to figure, but not impossible, compared to how many al rivets are needed to craft just 1 gun and you need to make 20 guns.

For me to come to the conclusion someone's cheating in-game takes a lot! Coming from the legal field, I look at all angles before pointing a finger and reporting someone. Using myself as an example here: I would hope if I was to be reported by someone thinking I have more than one account they would have more than the global messages for P-Notes to report because according to the global message that we all receive that means I'd be banned immediately. I'm not saying there's not some out there that has more than one account, but I don't know.

I'm not at all saying anybody jumps to conclusions, just stating that I don't. I don't think slugs are back for P-Note gathering, but I don't know that for sure. Been awhile since I've made a trip to the farm.

Know what you mean - when the Agriculturalist was in the game, I habitually exchanged 100 slugs for a pnote with newcomers (a. to help accelerate their citizenship and b. I just love the look of the global reward lightshow).
As the Agriculturalist exchanged 1 pnote per 50 slugroaches, and I would ensure I had a few 1000 slugroaches to start with - this meant the newcomer hit 10, 20 even 30 pnotes in a very quickly.

however, as long as the allegations are sent directly to Dedicated Logic and not specifically posted in a public forum - there is no harm in taking a cautious view of event.
(Publicly posted unsubstantiated allegations of cheating, exploiting and other wrong doings - based on biased, mitotic view of what is going on has caused a great deal of negativity in the past ... lets not go there)

Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton · « **Reply #22 on:** October 22, 2012, 05:15:18 am »

To be honest, the last time I was in QA1 and saw a quick succession of P Note globals AND thought it was suspicious enough to report it was many, many... many months ago. Back then there was very little that had been directly stated by the devs about the whole process and I honestly had no real expectation that my reports were being looked into. My view was always to err on the side of caution in terms of trying to help protect the game's economy from tanking by exploiters and if it turned out that the person wasn't exploiting, at least the devs had looked into it and could add the person to the "white list" as long as no new reports came in. I have never, ever told anyone outside of my own society if I thought someone might be using an exploit or have an alt or whatever and the few times I've mentioned it to society members it was always to recommend that they be careful when dealing with such persons, not that I knew for sure they couldn't be trusted.

It's a pretty fine line to walk when you 1) are worried that a game you truly want to succeed and reach its full potential might get messed up because of people looking to make a quick buck, 2) know that not everyone that acts "suspicious" (which is defined very differently for almost everyone) is actually up to anything bad, and 3) want to protect your friends from ne'er-do-wells when you aren't and can't be 100% sure of who is or isn't one. I'm pretty damn sure that these are the reasons the fighting got so bad for so long, especially when you add the fact that the bad elements can very easily take advantage of the fighting by inventing stories to tell both sides to fuel the fires and draw attention away from themselves. It's all very, very sad and I'm truly hopeful that it doesn't get nearly so bad ever again.

Event "Janе" Horizon · « **Reply #23 on:** October 22, 2012, 07:46:56 am »

Reality check.

It would be different if this was a RCE game - however it is not ... it is a sandboxed game.

Even if the game was a RCE game ... the cost of getting the resources to get pnotes reduces the 'profit' of generating pnotes from the nominal real life value $0.20 per pnote to an effective $0.07 per pnote. At a maximum potential of 3 pnotes per hour, you are talking about $0.27 per hour.

A a 'get-rich-quick' scheme this seems to lack the profit component.

Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton · « **Reply #24 on:** October 24, 2012, 05:42:56 am »

Sure, it's not an RCE... At least not yet. But that's how it's being marketed and why it's often directly compared to EU. This makes it a prime target for people wanting to milk it for all its worth even if they won't see the cash from those efforts right away.

And if the figures you're using to determine the cash surplus of $0.27 per hour are based on the value of stones you're not looking at it from enough angles. A moderately-skilled player can craft steel picks at cost for themself and pick the stones themself with very high efficiency or sucker some newcomers into doing the picking over a much longer period but with free labor costs. This reduces the AWD cost of all QA1 resources to the cost of the picks themselves, which are very cheap. Or a player can trade items for QA1 resources at a greater beneficial rate, especially to players that do not want to wait the extended periods of time necessary to find buyers or players that want to offload a boatload of resources in a hurry for whatever reason. And there's probably other creative ways of getting QA1 stones for cheaper than the cost in AWD inside of QA1 too. The point is that the flat "cost of QA1 stones at market value vs. value of P Notes at market value" does not nearly cover all possibilities, which is the greatest benefit of an open-market system like we have in AW.

Jane, if you're 100% confident that there's no way to cheat the devs out of money (after AW becomes an RCE, of course) except through exploitation of bug usage... Well you just haven't seen what many of the rest of us have. Once you see it you won't be so quick to throw out the words "reality check" in giant lettering.

Event "Janе" Horizon · « **Reply #25 on:** October 24, 2012, 06:12:24 am »

Brickwit (aka Odeon), I have done quite a lot of research on stones:
http://talk.afterworld.ru/?showtopic=5447
And therefore quite aware of the costs involved in picking stones.

I am also a great fan of backing up statements with facts (check the posts out in my http://talk.afterworld.ru/?showtopic=5447 topic). If you read through the topic again (you have read it before as you have posted there) - you will see that I have detailed the minimum values of stones per pick

.

You'll also need to note that my statements being are in regards to pnotes gained by trading stones with NPCs (
See http://talk.afterworld.ru/?showtopic=5447 where there is a table detailing simulations of this process).

I am unaware that Dedicated Logic are marketing their game as a RCE game - could you please provide a link to this resource?

Apology for "[size=78%]Reality check.[/size]" - I blame the forum software's interaction with Google Chrome. It was meant to be in normal font.

"The point is that the flat "cost of QA1 stones at market value vs. value of P Notes at market value" does not nearly cover all possibilities, which is the greatest benefit of an open-market system like we have in AW." ... unfortunately that statement also works as much for my statement as against it

"Jane, if you're 100% confident that there's no way to cheat the devs out of money (after AW becomes an RCE, of course) except through exploitation of bug usage... Well you just haven't seen what many of the rest of us have"
... this has been thoroughly discussed with very little consensus by those involved ... usually involving many unsubstantiated claims of knowledge that is not backup by facts nor any form of research. The nasty side of the "seen what many of the rest of us have" has resulted in a few people been banned because of their vigilante attitude.
Oh ... and the idea that Dedicated Logic are simply going to let players convert AWD into $$$ without auditing their activities, or without limiting the ability to do so in someway, is a bit mitotic given the current limits of newcomers.

Finally, please backup your assertions of higher pnote real-life $ value with examples as I cannot see a scenario where people will pay a huge premium over the base value of a pnote.

Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton · « **Reply #26 on:** October 28, 2012, 05:59:28 am »

I haven't asserted that the value of P Notes is higher than what you stated, I simply wondered about the method you were using in coming up with the "$0.27 per hour" figure you posted since it seemed low to me. I don't have a photographic memory and haven't done extensive number crunching on P Note values based on skill levels and such either, which is why I'm saying they "seemed" low. So if there is no way (including the creation of alts) to get P Notes any cheaper than having a well-skilled player picking the stones needed to turn into the WOs, then I'm glad to hear it and I'll propose that cheap P Notes are not the goal of people using alts. When I talked about people wanting to make a quick buck I wasn't referring to P Notes anyway except to say that it has been an indication that someone created an alt in the past. People have gone through great pains to find ways to cheat the game in as many ways and as much as possible over the years just on the past promise that it will be an RCE.

On that note the devs have done a good job of removing references to AW as an RCE so I can't point to any specific post, much as I'd like to. I won't ask you to trust me, but I will say that many of us that have been here since the early alpha stage have seen posts by the devs saying that AW would become an RCE and it's hard not to continue thinking that way without the devs saying they've changed their minds. To me the fact that we are all only allowed a single account and that the in-game side is now fully linked to the forum side is proof positive that it is still planned as an RCE since non-RCE games do not have this restriction. But based on your own words, you are under the assumption that it will be becoming an RCE too.

I'm sure that the devs are smart enough to know that allowing players to withdraw whatever is on their account all at once with no caps is a dangerous idea and that they have plans in place to prevent their coffers from being emptied once withdrawal becomes available. I've never doubted that there would be some limitation to withdrawals, but I can't say the same for everybody (or even most people) since it's not a conversation I've been a part of more than once or twice. But for whatever reason there have been lots of people ("thousands" of banned accounts, I think the statement said?) that have tried to cheat the game. Maybe most of those people have just wanted to gain skills and items faster and never cared about withdrawing real-world money, but others have directly stated the desire to make themselves richer even if it made the game go bankrupt. They apparently think much less of the devs than we do. ;-)

Event "Janе" Horizon · « **Reply #27 on:** October 28, 2012, 02:42:34 pm »

@Brickwit: it appears I misunderstood your statement "...And if the figures you're using to determine the cash surplus of $0.27 per hour are based on the value of stones you're not looking at it from enough angles...". Sorry about that.

As for the withdrawal option - given the way the game development is funded, I am surprised that Dedicated Logic have not already allowed this. However, Dedicated Logic think way deeper and far further into the future than I could possibly achieve.

Hugo "Lossehelin" Santos · « **Reply #28 on:** October 31, 2012, 12:36:45 pm »

Dedicated logic just doesn't give us much feedback on the plans. we'll see..

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Author Topic: Where do allegations of multiple accounts? (Read 3679 times)

Teesa "Teesa" Fisher

Re: Where do allegations of multiple accounts?

Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton

Re: Where do allegations of multiple accounts?

The "Fifth" Entity

Re: Where do allegations of multiple accounts?

Event "Janе" Horizon

Re: Where do allegations of multiple accounts?

Teesa "Teesa" Fisher

Re: Where do allegations of multiple accounts?

Zen "ZenX" Star

Re: Where do allegations of multiple accounts?

Event "Janе" Horizon

Re: Where do allegations of multiple accounts?

Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton

Re: Where do allegations of multiple accounts?

Event "Janе" Horizon

Re: Where do allegations of multiple accounts?

Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton

Re: Where do allegations of multiple accounts?

Event "Janе" Horizon

Re: Where do allegations of multiple accounts?

Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton

Re: Where do allegations of multiple accounts?

Event "Janе" Horizon

Re: Where do allegations of multiple accounts?

Hugo "Lossehelin" Santos

Re: Where do allegations of multiple accounts?