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Author Topic: Update: 10th September  (Read 13539 times)

Offline Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton

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Re: Update: 10th September
« Reply #60 on: August 30, 2014, 09:12:56 pm »
Quote from: Anti "Ether" Danilevski on August 30, 2014, 07:15:27 am
There were no new lootable items added. All that we did - rebalanced old items, fixed amounts of drop and calculated their prices. Also we have distributed them better for the future purposes. So there won't be situations where mutants are dropping processors, for instance.

About "skills unlocking costs awd" -  we are designing pnote trading system for those players who want to earn  pnotes via alternative ways. Someday it's going to be released.
Though usable item drops from mobs can make playing less expensive, I'm glad this won't be done. I just misunderstood what I put in bold above and it's a good thing that I was wrong! On the other hand, it would be pretty cool to sometimes be able to loot the double-sided sword that fouliscum use or the weapons used by robots! :)

Does the newly calculated prices for mob loot mean that everything will now have an AWD or PN value in it's info window like RICs do now?

I'm glad to see that there will 'someday' be alternative ways of earning PNs in the future and I know of plenty of players that hate picking who will be even happier. But since we used to be able to turn in slugroach corpses to Agriculturalist NPCs in AWA, will that be re-implemented sooner?
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Offline Event "Janе" Horizon

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Re: Update: 10th September
« Reply #61 on: August 30, 2014, 10:28:28 pm »
Quote from: Anti "Ether" Danilevski on August 30, 2014, 07:15:27 am
...
About "skills unlocking costs awd" -  we are designing pnote trading system for those players who want to earn  pnotes via alternative ways. Someday it's going to be released.
Thanks Anti ... mostly wondering how you will be able to generate enough income unless there is player cash injections.
Hence, had no objections to the need of AWD to craft and need P.Notes for skills.

However, I am sure you have that side covered :)

Quote from: Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton on August 30, 2014, 09:12:56 pm
Does the newly calculated prices for mob loot mean that everything will now have an AWD or PN value in it's info window like RICs do now?

My understanding of loot is that they have no value UNTIL you go to a Terminal / NPC and attempt to sell it.
So I would not expect anything about loot info to change.

Once you take the loot to a P.Note terminal  - the system will determine the P.Note value of the loot.
You'll still be able to sell loot for AWD via the Market terminals - at whatever price you think fit.
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Offline Bold "Bertram" Blanshard

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Re: Update: 10th September
« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2014, 08:12:02 am »
Quote from: Event "Janе" Horizon on August 30, 2014, 10:28:28 pm
Quote from: Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton on August 30, 2014, 09:12:56 pm
Does the newly calculated prices for mob loot mean that everything will now have an AWD or PN value in it's info window like RICs do now?

My understanding of loot is that they have no value UNTIL you go to a Terminal / NPC and attempt to sell it.
So I would not expect anything about loot info to change.

Once you take the loot to a P.Note terminal  - the system will determine the P.Note value of the loot.
If that is to be more than than an inconvenience, the loot value would need to be dynamic, like buying clones now.
That would make life more interesting, but also tedious.
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Offline Event "Janе" Horizon

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Re: Update: 10th September
« Reply #63 on: August 31, 2014, 09:27:52 am »
Anti has indicated that loot P.Note value will depend on whether the system feels there is an imbalance.
Whether player related attributes also kick in is unknown. However, the game already has/had players getting different values dependent on their trading history.
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Offline Anti "Ether" Danilevski

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Re: Update: 10th September
« Reply #64 on: September 01, 2014, 08:01:35 am »
Quote from: Event "Janе" Horizon on August 31, 2014, 09:27:52 am
Anti has indicated that loot P.Note value will depend on whether the system feels there is an imbalance.
Whether player related attributes also kick in is unknown. However, the game already has/had players getting different values dependent on their trading history.


Not in this version. It will work later... much later. And items have their basic value - later, different NPC's will buy for different prices based on deficite/proficite in the zone.
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Offline Hugo "Lossehelin" Santos

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Re: Update: 10th September
« Reply #65 on: September 01, 2014, 01:23:39 pm »
creating a much more dynamic economy. i like it.
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Offline Wavy "Wavy" Warrior

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Re: Update: 10th September
« Reply #66 on: September 01, 2014, 05:36:41 pm »

Long Post (As I understand the discussion till now looks there is a big swing in the overall market economy ~100 Times)

We have conversions and economy based on.

M-Pnote
P-Note
New - Pnote
Sau
AWD

Present Day

1 P-Note ~ 100 M-Pnote (Actually 98 but just taking that as terminal charge and for simplicity taking as 100)
1 P-Note ~ Sells for roughly 5 AWD
1000 Sau ~ Roughly sells for 0.5-0.6 AWD

My Understanding of the conversions till now

100 M-Pnote = 1 P-note
1 P-note = 100 New PNote
1 Sau = 1 New Pnote

Then roughly 1k Sau = 1000 New P-Note = 10 P-note

So If P-Note = 5AWD
1K Sau = 50 AWD (Old price 0.5 AWD so increasing 100 times)

This means two things either Sau rate is increasing significantly or P-note rate is decreasing significantly.

My Thoughts

Can we do anything so that there is not such a big swing ~100 times.

Any chance are we confusing between one divide/Multiply.

Is it something like

1 M-Pnote = 100 New P-Note
1 P-Note = 100 M-Pnote
1 Sau = 1 New P-Note

Thus, Now the new economy prices are in the same order 1P-note = 5AWD , 1k Sau = 0.5 AWD.

Some more math,
1 P-Note = 100 M-Pnote =  10,000 New-Pnote i.e 5 AWD = 10,000 New -P-note
10,000 Sau = 10,000 New-Pnote again 10 * .5 = 5 AWD = 10,000 New- P-note
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Offline Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton

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Re: Update: 10th September
« Reply #67 on: September 01, 2014, 06:16:16 pm »
Anti, would you please clarify the conversion to the new PN system a bit more? Are these true or not (where -> means conversion of pre-update to post-update), and if not would you modify these numbers accordingly?
  • 1 SAU -> 1 PN
  • 1 PMN (Promissory Micro-Note, as they're actually named) -> 1 PN
  • 1 PN (current amount) -> 100 PN
And can you confirm that I understood your previous comment correctly, that we will need 3600 PNs to unblock a Stage 1 skill after the update? If so, it makes sense that the first point above should be true and that the points afterward should be correct as well.
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Offline Event "Janе" Horizon

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Re: Update: 10th September
« Reply #68 on: September 01, 2014, 07:09:03 pm »
Quote from: Wavy "Wavy" Warrior on September 01, 2014, 05:36:41 pm
...

So If P-Note = 5AWD
1K Sau = 50 AWD (Old price 0.5 AWD so increasing 100 times)
...
However, there will be 100+ times more new P-Notes in the economy ... and new P-Notes are supposed to be as populous as SAU (otherwise the hunting requirement becomes ridiculous as it becomes even more grinding than currently). So you can expect a player to accumulate millions of new P-Notes.

Anti, has also said the new P-Notes will be used 1:1 in the way that SAU was used for unblocking. So, except for the players that will exploit the initial confusion in P-Notes (naughty players that will try to con other players to buy naught players new P-Notes @ 5AWD),  1k P-Notes should settle back to 0.5AWD or whatever the player-to-player market value will settle into.

Note: 0.5 AWD per 1K SAU is very close to the decay cost of collecting that much SAU.
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Offline Anti "Ether" Danilevski

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Re: Update: 10th September
« Reply #69 on: September 01, 2014, 07:37:39 pm »
We are going to watch and analyze new economy system and if something would work not as planned, it will be fixed. But for now, exchange rate will remain as designed. You really don't know how many pnotes you can earn per day to worry about it now.


Also, we can set any exchange rate that we find is correct, be it AWD -> pnote/ 1 AWD = 100 pnotes or 1 AWD = 1m pnotes.
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Offline Bold "Bertram" Blanshard

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Re: Update: 10th September
« Reply #70 on: September 01, 2014, 08:40:43 pm »
So my 100 PNotes, which I've spent 50 hours picking stones for, will be converted to 10k new PNotes, worth 1/100 th of their current value?
Unless I can sell them to someone who hasn't read this thread before the update?
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Offline Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton

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Re: Update: 10th September
« Reply #71 on: September 01, 2014, 08:47:10 pm »
I didn't think that the exchange rate might need to be adjusted, but I can see that being a possible necessity. However, do you plan to only adjust it a few times right after the update or will it be so fluid that it might not be the same rate from day to day even a year later?


@Bertram, all PNs will have the same value for all players, just as they do now. If they're multiplied by 100 or 1000 for you, they'll be multiplied by the same amount for all of us. Therefore if you're selling 1 PN for 5 AWD now, you'll sell 100 or 1000 PNs for 5 AWD after the update just as easily as you do now.
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Offline Bold "Bertram" Blanshard

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Re: Update: 10th September
« Reply #72 on: September 01, 2014, 09:00:03 pm »
@Brickwit, see Jane's post above, value of 1k new PNotes will be 0.5 AWD. And my previous post at #44.  There isn't a problem for PNotes earned after conversion, but there certainly is for those players holding existing PNotes.
Think of a seesaw - either existing PNotes lose value, or existing SAU gains value, in either case by a factor of around 100. If the second, the cost of unblocking skills would also rise by a factor of 100 in AWD, so the first is much more likely, and Jane's figure would be correct. My PNotes worth 500 AWD become worth 5 AWD.

Anti, I strongly request you follow Wavy's suggestion above, and adjust your proposed conversion rates to avoid this injustice.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 09:23:01 pm by Bold "Bertram" Blanshard »
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Offline Event "Janе" Horizon

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Re: Update: 10th September
« Reply #73 on: September 02, 2014, 12:39:21 am »
My point was that if you have 1 PNote now, you will have 100 new PNotes after the update.

Let's say that you got 1 PNote by picking and that the pick decay cost you 0.5 AWD hence the 1 PNote cost you 0.5 AWD.
After the update, you now have 100 new PNotes ... these were still generated via the above picking - so these would still have a total intrinsic value of 0.5 AWD.

Lets say you also have 3600 SAU before the update, these will become 3600 PNotes after the udpate.
Before the update you could use the 3600 SAU to unblock level 1, after the update you can use the 3600 PNotes to unblock level 1.

So players will not have lost any 'value' during update; the type and quantity of the things being valued will change rather than the total value.

Think of it like currency: you are exchanging 1 USD for 37 Rubles with no transaction fee. A Pepsi costs 1 USD to buy before and now will cost 37 Rubles.

Not known: Whether the exchange rate for stone to PNote with NPCs will now be 100 PNotes per 500kg (it should).
Not known: Whether Citizenship by PNotes will now be 10,000 PNotes (instead of 100 PNotes).
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Offline Wavy "Wavy" Warrior

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Re: Update: 10th September
« Reply #74 on: September 02, 2014, 12:54:54 am »
Quote from: Event "Janе" Horizon on September 02, 2014, 12:39:21 am
My point was that if you have 1 PNote now, you will have 100 new PNotes after the update.

I agree on most of the things others mentioned. As the game progresses new economy will take over and based on other factors new prices will emerge.


Only issue is with the large swing with people already holding P-Notes / Sau.

1 PNote = 100 New Pnotes and am thinking 1 Pnote = 10,000 new Pnotes would have been better.

Else someone who have stored lots of P-Notes at present will be at a loss of 100 times in a day. If this is confirmed would really think using all the existing P-Notes is a wise thing. Maybe research ?? Even ignoring skills, Just the amount of Sau you get from Research would be more beneficial (Multi times).
« Last Edit: September 02, 2014, 01:00:57 am by Wavy "Wavy" Warrior »
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