Author Topic: Article: Can We Make Quests Matter Again?  (Read 902 times)

Offline dale "dalewj" ofj

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Offline Cobra "The Guru" Guru

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Re: Article: Can We Make Quests Matter Again?
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2014, 10:24:32 pm »
interesting indeed ty for sharing
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Offline The "Fifth" Entity

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Re: Article: Can We Make Quests Matter Again?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2014, 07:59:28 am »
Dynamic content! Years ago i suggested this as part of the landscape and events of the future games.
Now it seems it's the Only Way Out.
Am i good or what? ;)




I don't believe in the miraculous salvation through player generated content though. It's been tried already, go look at Second Life, it's a mountain of boring tasteless worthless crap. Good 95% of the playerbase is consumers, they'll never create anything even if u stand on your head. And all the "new and original content" you will get is just echoes and clones of something the Average Joe saw yesterday in some other game or a movie. A professional level designer can effortlessly roll out tons of the same stuff but with much better quality.


Besides, you 1st have to build building tools for users, then take care u don't accidentally give the hackers tools to exploit (or just simply blow) your game, and afterwards u spend even more resources and time to review a mountain of worthless crap.
The team that reviews player generated content has to have a talent. You have to use artists and designers for that job. Send artist to rummage in dirt see what happens? This job will be so frustrating he will soon need a drink to keep going and not hang himself. :)


No, in the end of the day AI generated dynamic content is the only way out.
never assign a human to do machine job
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Offline dale "dalewj" ofj

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Re: Article: Can We Make Quests Matter Again?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2014, 11:30:35 am »
dynamic can be server based.  how do I describe it.  a quest doesn't need to have strict line of steps.  what if the steps were a top down pyramid of steps.  every step contains x amount of options.  so by the time you get to the end there are X*X*X*X(onwards) of options.   Yes I know this is exactly dynamic, but unless the devs write a self maintained self intelligent game... dynamic will never truly happen.  Quests can also have different levels and decisions depending on the person or team in it.  So if u change up 1 person the quest changes at some point.  dynamic can be coded.
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Offline Event "Janе" Horizon

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Re: Article: Can We Make Quests Matter Again?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2014, 11:22:48 pm »
Dynamic quests do not need to have HAL from 2001: A Space Odyssey running the show.
Testing strategies have shown that you can get a huge variety of test cases through divergent/convergent tree structures. Billions of different test results by providing a very small number of conditions which are manipulated during the testing steps. Looks non-deterministic, produces random looking end results (from the outside) but is quite deterministic from the inside.
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Offline The "Fifth" Entity

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Re: Article: Can We Make Quests Matter Again?
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2014, 05:58:59 am »
Right, the real Artificial Intelligence hasn't been born yet, so i should have used quotation marks.

Until then the computers only do what we order them to do.
After, we will do what computers order us to do... :D
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Offline Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton

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Re: Article: Can We Make Quests Matter Again?
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2014, 04:22:15 pm »
Not to worry, we'll definitely fight back when Big Rob decides to take over. :)


I think the OP's article makes some good points, but the comments make even better ones. Quests were only initially introduced in games to provide optional things to do in single-player games to provide extra gameplay and maybe some additional goodies. The current trend of games - especially MMOs - being nothing more than environmental wrappings around quest systems that are the best way to gain experience points is lame and overdone. Quests in AW should be optional ways of experiencing everything that the game has to offer but shouldn't provide more XP than just playing the game does. At most they should be interesting distractions from the primary goals that we each provide for ourselves, and not goals unto themselves.
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Offline Event "Janе" Horizon

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Re: Article: Can We Make Quests Matter Again?
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2014, 09:52:23 pm »
Assuming we are talking about the RPG type quests, I am not convinced Quests are something that Survival should have.
However, something is required to Guide the players initially ... a game that starts with too many players asking "Hi, I am new, what do I do?" is a concern.
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Re: Article: Can We Make Quests Matter Again?
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2014, 11:55:43 pm »
Very true. If nothing else there should be a newcomer walkthrough that does in-game what the wiki's First Steps post talks about.
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Offline kittykali "godslayer" deathslayer

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Re: Article: Can We Make Quests Matter Again?
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2014, 10:20:45 am »
You can spin it in whatever way you want but any quests can be divided into:
- go to place X and kill Y foes.
- go to place X and talk with Y
- go to place X and use skill Y Z times
- go to place X and fetch Y items, or any combination of the above tasks. So how do you try to make quests matter again?


When i start a new mmorpg characters always go for the quests, i like to read stories. For me a quest is as good as the story behind him.
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Offline The "Fifth" Entity

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Re: Article: Can We Make Quests Matter Again?
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2014, 12:19:04 pm »
Yea, the article on MMORPG.com only talks about quests.
I'm not sure why they can't see the full scale of possibilities. Because the average mainstream MMO today is nothing but stupid pile of quests, maybe?
Whatever, their problem.
Obviously you can apply the same principle not only to the quests but to the whole virtual environment. The dynamics of the nature recreated in the virtual model of the reality. If u look at it this way, this is the logical next step. Result will be more realistic and less repetitive environment: massive increase in the fun factor.
Ofc it's much harder to code, there's no real AI yet that could take care of everything for us. Programmers have to write those complex scripts and object trees. Pseudo-dynamics that will try to mimic the real thing.
Even worse, dynamically created content will be a real pain in the backside to balance. Etc, etc etc.....

However, the result would be well worth it.
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Offline dale "dalewj" ofj

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Re: Article: Can We Make Quests Matter Again?
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2014, 12:26:28 pm »


However, the result would be well worth it.

it would be 'dynamic'.
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