Author Topic: AW virtual world in the future  (Read 23948 times)

Offline Homo "Evangelist" Ludens

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Re: AW virtual world in the future
« Reply #45 on: July 29, 2013, 04:33:55 pm »
RCE with fixed exchange rate is impossible without gambling scheme.

RCE (Real Cash Economy)
 
- Player A deposit 10 Dollar
- Player A buy Something through Auction from Player B worth 10 Dollar
- Player B could now withdraw 9,70 Dollar (-3% Auction Fee)
- Lost for Devs is nothing / Win for Devs is the 3% Fee

Please explain where this is gambeling scheme?

Greetings - Zwarky
No one game cant earn money with RCE without gambling ingame. So no one game cant exist with RCE but without gambling ingame. Just simple mathematics. I mean EU RCE)))
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 04:40:13 pm by Homo "Evangelist" Ludens »
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Offline Homo "Evangelist" Ludens

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Re: AW virtual world in the future
« Reply #46 on: July 29, 2013, 04:38:54 pm »
No need of RCE, just create a webshop like place where players can buy/sell awd/stuff using Paypal or other methods. Players would sell below the system's exchange rate, but this alone would attract many players.
It`s one thing we`re thinking about. But we wont implement a kind of this until we understand it works without damage for game economy. It`s not a simple task.
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Offline Hugo "Lossehelin" Santos

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Re: AW virtual world in the future
« Reply #47 on: July 29, 2013, 04:55:37 pm »
seriously do not make the game a t might rue survival. The minute the game turns in to watch out you might not get killed by a mob but by the guying that is pretending to be your friend type of thing the game will loose interest.

Instead. If you really want to go that way make it region locked. Place something interesting in that region that will make people want to go there and risk their lifes. Like a treasure, valuable loot from mobs, rich place to mine, a freaking oil rig.....
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Offline Leo "Tesla Coil" Raateland

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Re: AW virtual world in the future
« Reply #48 on: July 29, 2013, 05:23:46 pm »
Place something interesting in that region that will make people want to go there and risk their lifes. Like a treasure, valuable loot from mobs, rich place to mine, a freaking oil rig.....

 :) Good idea  :P

To bad so much critical changes have to take place but in the end it could really become a great game platform.
Learned that game development is something great and I can only hope every game developer can make his dreams true.

Good luck AW team and hope you all doing well on the new update that is expected by lots of people!
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Re: AW virtual world in the future
« Reply #49 on: July 29, 2013, 07:54:24 pm »
No need of RCE, just create a webshop like place where players can buy/sell awd/stuff using Paypal or other methods. Players would sell below the system's exchange rate, but this alone would attract many players.
It`s one thing we`re thinking about. But we wont implement a kind of this until we understand it works without damage for game economy. It`s not a simple task.

Selling awd/skill for real cash is happening frequently .. I mean it used to before this crisis. If you don't implement it will happen behind your back, if you do it will be under your control. You may also take 5% off for providing safety to buyer and seller.
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Offline Event "Janе" Horizon

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Re: AW virtual world in the future
« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2013, 07:58:00 pm »
I'm a big fan of "Actions speak louder than words". With long explanations comes the risk of misunderstanding, which rises even more questions. The game itself is often much better answer, the features and mechanics are there, in a plain sight for everyone to see.

Absolutely agreed!
So we must do 2 things first: update with trees&herbs and new avatars implementation.
As for me personally, you know, my task is to get "smart money" for farther development and company building.


P.S. You say, RCE is not EU and EU is not RCE. True. But you must understand one important thing. RCE with fixed exchange rate is impossible without gambling scheme. We dont want AW to become gambling game. So our model will be closer to EVE or SL.
I think people might have missed the bit in red.
What Evangelist might be saying is that DL might implement a zero-sum system.


I think it goes like this:
Day 0:
DL account balance = $0


Day 1:
Player A deposits $10 = 100AWD
Player B deposits $10 = 100AWD
Player account balance = 200 AWD
DL account balance = $20


Day 10:
DL expenditure since Day 1: $5
DL account balance = $15.
Player account balance = 200 AWD
Player B withdraws 100AWD, exchange rate = $15/200AWD = $0.075/AWD, Player B receives $7.50.

Player account balance now = 100 AWD
DL account balance now = $7.50.


Day 20:
DL expenditure since Day 10: $5
DL account balance = $2.50.
Player account balance = 100 AWD
Player A withdraws 100AWD, exchange rate = $2.5/100AWD = $0.025/AWD, Player B receives $2.50.
DL account balance = $0.


If the exchange rate was fixed (at same rate as deposit) then DL will have a debit of $10 at day 20 = bankrupt.
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Offline Zaelkaer "Allfather" Vampyre

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Re: AW virtual world in the future
« Reply #51 on: July 29, 2013, 08:15:20 pm »
Selling awd/skill for real cash is happening frequently .. I mean it used to before this crisis. If you don't implement it will happen behind your back, if you do it will be under your control. You may also take 5% off for providing safety to buyer and seller.

It seems to me that we all agree that really what happens in AW is Players, trade with Players. And at least this for me, is good enough. It's not RCE no, but it's close to the same thing. Example. If AWS is successful and many players come in. Lets say Player A comes in, he is new, he has $ he wants to invest. Meanwhile Player B has been playing a long  time, spending hours of his time and effort in making skills and items. This player B, will want to sell to player A, this is how he will make his hours playing in the game worth it to him.

If there was a Safe way to do this, if AWS provided a way to Offcially make these trades, that's all thats needed. Meanwhile, any trades done are done based on trust of each other, and also has to meet player in-game to trade.

If there was a system inplemented, then it would be just like the current market terminal, except a section where you can find players selling things (anything) for cash prices instead of awd.

However, ofc, in AWS awd will always be needed to do activitities such as crafting and so on, so there will always be a need for awd so people will still deposit, especially if there are promotion sales by the devs.

just some thoughts.

Edit: and just like the market fee of 3%, DL can create this same fee for cash trades so for example, if someone sells something $200, the player who bought the items pays $200, the player who sold the items recieves $194, DL recieves $6.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 08:17:36 pm by Zaelkaer "Allfather" Vampyre »
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Offline Event "Janе" Horizon

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Re: AW virtual world in the future
« Reply #52 on: July 29, 2013, 08:40:04 pm »
There may be a good (tax) reason for calling player $$$ inputs into the game "Deposits".
Participating in or facilitating withdrawals would probably make this taxable income as far as the Taxman is concerned.
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Offline Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton

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Re: AW virtual world in the future
« Reply #53 on: July 30, 2013, 12:10:58 am »
No one game cant earn money with RCE without gambling ingame. So no one game cant exist with RCE but without gambling ingame. Just simple mathematics. I mean EU RCE)))
This is only true if you allow immediate withdrawal of all AWD. If you require a "processing delay" between request and transaction completion, a maximum withdrawal amount per month (possibly linked to the total amount donated/deposited), charged a withdrawal fee, and maybe required a minimum withdrawal amount, it can be controlled so that you don't lose money.

On the other hand, the idea of facilitating trades between players that would be pretty cool too.
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Offline Zen "ZenX" Star

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Re: AW virtual world in the future
« Reply #54 on: July 30, 2013, 02:28:04 am »
People seem to be only looking at losing RCE models,lol.
The model that suits a successful game is the model where the owners of the game shave small margins of daily activities, such as crafting and auctions and skills, something akin to taxes, need I remind people this is how governments gain revenue to run countries.
It is the design of the RCE model that would dictate how successful it would be, therefore if the Devs could create a viable model they can make money.
Taxing is a fine balance between extracting funds consistently and not over doing it so the citizen gets annoyed.
Money from deposits is partially taxed, money from crafting is taxed, money from auctions is taxed, money in relation to skill removals is taxed, use of buildings is taxed, use Micro notes etc are a tax, and so on and so on.
 
At the end of the day AW players are citizens that are regularly taxed, revenues are decided through taxes and scale, the more players the more taxes.
The same as the real world, this is why governments are always encouraging us to breed, even though the planet will hold only a certain amount of people.
 
To say all RCE models are gambling is showing a lack of understanding, making a successful RCE model requires some mathematical skill, if the Devs don't have those skills there is nothing stopping them from consulting a Mathematician or an Economist.
How difficult it is to make a viable RCE model depends on various factors, some of them are costs and scale of player base, how much profit is deemed acceptable and the mechanism of economic function in game.
 
Is RCE gambling, well yes, but so is everything, so is running any government in the world, so is running Blizzard or Microsoft or Apple or Enzon, so is walking across the road or working with machinery, so is Life.
 
Real gambling is betting on the horses or playing roulette, particularly Russian,lol, but other things in life that can have unforseen outcomes can be planned to have maximum chance of success.
You could say Warren Buffet and George Soros are the two biggest gamblers in the world, but they are clever men who make educated decisions, and prosper greatly from creating models that work.
 
The model of RCE that someone creates dictates whether it will be profitable for the developer, not the fact that it is an RCE model, or game.
 
Devs will do as they wish, it is always their choice, but please don't throw some bad math at us and expect us all to believe it.
 
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Offline BenZoure "BusyBen" Jameson

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Re: AW virtual world in the future
« Reply #55 on: July 30, 2013, 03:49:58 am »
     The AW model of taxes and fees is very well suited for the RCE model if the money to cover the AWD still in-game was set aside.  The problem, as I see it, is all the AWD still in-game with nothing behind it.

     There are two things that need to be done to get that system back on track.  The first is to further encourage the spending of the AWD in-game now.  This will happen naturally as AW continues to develop.  As more features from Alpha are brought back, and more items are introduced to be crafted, this will bring back players to spend the AWD already in-game.

     The second thing is to begin setting aside money to cover new deposits, or donations.  I know that all the money brought in this way can't be set aside, or there would be no money to run the business behind AW, but those AWD will begin to be spent as well, and eventually, there will be enough set aside to safely allow withdraws.

     In order for AW to get back to that model, which is what many of us are hoping for, will require that the ability to withdraw not be allowed until there is enough money set aside again, so that implementing withdraw will not bankrupt DL and kill the goose before it can lay the golden eggs.

     As long as we as a player base know that that is still the ultimate goal, and it is confirmed that player trading of in-game resources for outside monies is allowed, I think many players will begin depositing, or donating, again for the good of AW and themselves.

     
         
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Offline Jarod "Brickwit" McBrickerton

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Re: AW virtual world in the future
« Reply #56 on: July 30, 2013, 04:11:39 am »
I agree, just letting us all know that you plan to implement some form of RCE will bring lots of people back to AWS from EU, SL, and other RCE games. You don't even have to give a firm estimate on when you expect that to happen, just announcing it will do wonders!
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Offline The "Fifth" Entity

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« Reply #57 on: July 30, 2013, 06:44:38 am »

Monthly fee type game - You take all the money as it arrives.


RCE model - Player inserts money into game, but it's still his money. You take only as much as he gradually spends into "money sinks" you have created inside game. Could be taxes, could be services, could be rent for the house or a land area... etc.


So, the only difference is when you take money. All the rest is exactly the same.


Maybe gambling can help us generate "money sinks" inside game?


Two guys will gamble:
- Jack loses big,
- John wins the jackpot.


The worst case scenario now - Jack might give it up and never depososit anything again.
John might decide that's it, got the jackpot, time to withdraw all and leave.


"House" still has to keep a reserve that covers both players ingame resources. Money changed hands but it's still ingame and it's not used up on services/taxes, thus it could be withdrawn any minute. From game company's perspective, nothing changed.




Yes, gambling could have an indirect effect - it couldmake people use (taxable) ingame services more actively - thus increasing turnover, thus increasing the real, tax/rake income for the "House".


However, all this is not related nor required for RCE.
Any factor that makes the game exciting for a player does the same. It could be gambling, but also: PvP, a good company/society, interesting game mechanics, advanced NPC/mob AI, entertaining guest/storyline, beautiful scenery/arwork/avatars... etc




(Note to myself - There's nobody in DL who can understand the basics of economy. Apparently there never was.)
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Offline Tiko "Godless" Soul

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Re: AW virtual world in the future
« Reply #58 on: July 30, 2013, 01:01:07 pm »
You can suggest whatever you want. DL will do same stupid things, they did before, like pay to die yay ....
And why the hell you still trying to solve their problems if they dont want them to be solved, why even bother with idiot who will do same shit as always ...
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Offline darkmoumoutte "the king" of planet

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Re: AW virtual world in the future
« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2013, 06:22:37 pm »
but lol, you make me believe that c is one which we do not even know the social statue, especially the name and age will advance the game, as it starts from the beginning, they want your MONEY, so they will handle again.

I have depot, I'm playing, I never will dream a penny, plus they still want money, go to work honestly and STOP OF TRYING TO STEAL PEOPLE WITH FALSE PROMISES
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