AfterWorld Survival Forum

@Evangelist: I like your attitude and that you have qualifications to match what DL need to advance Keep up the good work.

I have MBA degree.

Yes, ppl have degrees, so other people who are unable to evaluate it by themselves could look at this label and hope there's an actual qualification to go with it. Sometimes there is, sometimes not.
Our case is much simpler. As soon as you begin to understand the problem we can see it.


Don't get me wrong, i don't try to defend RCE, or think RCE is the only right way.
There's other possibilities that are already tested, and if you have real in-depth knowledge, you can even assemble your own unique system from those elements.
If i managed to break your self-confidence and arise a tiny suspicion, then my efforts (and Zen's efforts before me), were not a total waste. Also, the money and time you spent on getting this degree...

I don't think they are troll!
Just remember that in more than 7 years, we got a little few bit news! So, even if their speach may seems rude, it reveal that DL lost a lot of player due to the lack of communication!

It seems that with Homo Ludens, we got the first thing the community was asking for: communication!

Don't be to bad about rude people cause we all know that there are some reason for their anger!
The only sad thing is that their comment aren't usefull! But try to understand their deceiption and their anger!
Even if it didn't help, it shows that DL still have a lot to do to make a great game!

In my opinion, DL have made the first step to make AWS life possible! Now I'm waiting to see how and when they are going to do the next steps!
You'r on the good game devs! I see a little glittering light of hope!

RCE model in its pure form can`t allow to make a really massive game.
(...)
Our game model will be closer to the the EVE-online model then to the EU model.
(...)
Our game must be really «survival» game where players pay high price for death.
Excess adrenaline in the game adds interest.

1. I'll not call EU "massive" or whatever. I just play it. Allow me to ask,
if we'll have players count in mind only, where is a bigger proportion gap?
a) between other MMORPG and EU?
b) between PE and AW: Alpha?
c) between EU and AW: Survival?
 - this might give some ideas for you.

2. As I remember (a friend of mine was playing EvE for more than 3 years), devs of that game forbidden to withdraw funds (ISKs) from game under threat of serious penalties; bans including. Is this where we're heading? - because allowing to trade ingame currency/items outside AW would serve as excuse for what was promised, after changing AWD description and 2-3 years ago there was some hundreds of virtual worlds with count rising at a good tempo.

To say all RCE models are gambling is showing a lack of understanding, making a successful RCE model requires some mathematical skill, if the Devs don't have those skills there is nothing stopping them from consulting a Mathematician or an Economist.
How difficult it is to make a viable RCE model depends on various factors, some of them are costs and scale of player base, how much profit is deemed acceptable and the mechanism of economic function in game.
 
Devs will do as they wish, it is always their choice, but please don't throw some bad math at us and expect us all to believe it.
 
Zen

Confirmed. EvE has at least 1 qualified economist with academic education as a member of staff.

3. Excess adrenaline is very OK sometimes, but until someone want to touch my wallets or items. I'd better give money to charity in RL or use EU's PvP system, which doesn't have 9 levels of looting. Pay for entering certain PvP zones (injections, tokens, scout checks, etc.) would be good tho for accumulating global-like loots.

4. EU already has some barriers for withdrawing:
a) minimal summ of withdrawal,
   so part of ingame funds stays in it all the time.
b) time needed for making it,
   so they can turn money for profit elsewhere as well.
c) withdrawal fee,
   so further reducing frequent withdrawals.

Key things AWS needs:

Get rid of donations and implement deposits
Designate 3 PvP areas lvl 1,2,3 there's no need for more levels.

Laws for traditional banking systems uses reserve (usually +/- 15-25%), which is untouched in case clients wants to take their deposits back for whatever reason and hardly ANY bank would survive if ALL clients would be willing to do so at ONE moment. I'm not asking about Donate > Deposit switch even, until which 0 AWD will be accumulated for withdrawals due to nature of given funds.
 Donations = like charity; no much responsibility vs players;
 Deposits = here responsibility starts due to an obligations.
 I don't see problem with both Donates & Deposits existing along
 each other for some time, but rewards for it must be different.

The second thing is to begin setting aside money to cover new deposits, or donations.  I know that all the money brought in this way can't be set aside, or there would be no money to run the business behind AW, but those AWD will begin to be spent as well, and eventually, there will be enough set aside to safely allow withdraws.

5. Shiny avatars can wait 2 years more at least.
AW: Alpha functionality has top priority now, if
project wants to survive and evolve to a future.

6. What is your opinion on mini-globals recently
implemented at EU (now it starts from 10 PED for
some mobs, I've had 33 PED from one as example).
We're speaking about reducing cost-2-play there.

7. Make market history for items & resources prices.

8. Remove damn clones thing. Revival must be free.

RCE with fixed exchange rate is impossible without gambling scheme.
We dont want AW to become gambling game.
So our model will be closer to EVE or SL.

From what I know from my mates, EU deposits
(esp. via Ukash) has variable convert rates.

9. It seems, you forgot what moneysink concept is. In short, it's one of aspects, why game gives less withdrawals than deposits, but currently I'm stuck with some hundred of AWDs due old ones (plants picking, etc.) non-working and this also stops ANY new donates, which was simply eated or used for maintenance before. Until part of players wil be able to use frozen assets due to broken activities, new donates/deposits will be partly stuck; hope it will be prior to no money left for maintenance of hamsters.

3. You allways have a choise to go or not to go into max-lootable PVP. If you dont want to risk, you can unite with someone or just pay to someone who is ready to risk. Of course, this aspect of the game must be carefully balanced. But all most valuable things will be in dangerus zones.In EU you risk with your money even in safe areas, in AW - only in PVP zones.
 
Which means that if you are not a PvP oriented person you will not be able to gain the most valuable things.
Which means this is not really going to be a game for all, or a game for solo players, is is going to be a game for the PvP fanatic.
I think you will find that there is a large proportion of current players at least that aren't PvP fanatics, and many people also like to play solo.
You only have to read the posts made by people here on the forum to see many have little interest in fighting.
I don't know why you cant meet peoples desires for PvP in a manner that doesn't create an elitist situation.
Have a zone where there is something special to achieve, but to stop people being able to craft or mine because they don't have the desire to be a full time soldier seems short sighted.
You say you don't want the aspects of EU, but you are talking of creating the Oil well effect of EU.
The rich getting richer. Do you think lesser players could get to the oil well at EU?
 
DLs fixation with this particular style of PvP doesn't cater for all potential players, and seems to be a type of clone of EU.
I think you need to think outside the box and come up with a plan that incorporates a PvP system that is challenging and rewarding, yet doesn't separate and isolate, and doesn't make the rich get richer.
Evangelist, I do hope you are aware that over the years several players have bought their way to elite level, and these people would dominate these resources available only via PvP.
I have no problem with people buying their skills and armors  etc, no problem at all. I have a problem with game design that allows them to fully dominate PvP areas, or even large Societies to dominate PvP areas and their rare resources.
 
I don't think you guys are thinking this out fully.
To make a successful game you don't necessarily make it exactly as YOU want it, you make it how the MASSES will want it, and you cater for all, not just one section of people.
 
This is my opinion anyway, and I know your ideas on PvP don't appeal to myself, and I also know there are others that feel the same way.
I like some PvP games, but the mechanics of AW and the style of PvP in AW and even the weapon function I find inefficient and tedious.For example in SWToR I was a full time PvPer and was one of the best on my server, but they had different PvP style, it was fun, and the mechanics of attacking were more interesting and far less of just bashing a keyboard and jumping left and right and left and right etc etc.
In SWToR you could fight in the field if you met, but the real fighting took place in arena situations where you built prestige and rank, and fought other people of your skill level. So there was no real bully aspect, because the better players were fighting the better players, not going around beating up the weak.
Unreal Tournament was brilliant, but didn't give a value reward.
 
The difference between Unreal, SWToR and EU and Survival is that EU and Survival separate groups with the haves and have nots, apart from the fact EU and Survival both have boring fight mechanics.
 
I appreciate these are just my thoughts and opinions, but I would suggest that my opinion is at least similar to some others that do and would play AW.
 
Anyway I am unsure anything we put to you guys is actually even considered, so it is quite possibly a waste of time even suggesting alternatives or making ideas.
 
Zen

In regards to PvP and valuables and the arguments about it not being fair for those who are not PvP oriented,,, thats sort of the whole point for DL. If people Need to have skills that will allow them to survive, then that means they need to Spend something to get that stuff. I understand the argument that it can allow elitest players to dominate. But don't you understand,,,, that means one of two things, either elitist donates and money stays in game (good for DL) or elitist buys stuff from other player (good for player). Either scenario is good and requires money to be spent. I would understand your argument if it was impossible for a free to play player to be able to survive in pvp areas, but it is possible. There's many players here who are at that level, the difference is you have to work at it for a long time.

I DO support the following though. DL, please do not completely isolate the valuable things. For example, don't put ALL of 1 robot in one location. put them in 3 locations, and 3 locations of varying pvp levels. example "alpha level" (3, death possible but no loot) for one, level 5 for one, level 7 for one. something like that. create balance and fairness

Sure, eletists might camp out 1 of the 3 locations because its easy for them (thus encouraging elitism and the spending of money) but the rest of the population could go to the other 2 locations for it and for slightly more work/not as lucrative as the higher risk area.
(example, lvl 3 has 5 big bots, lvl 5 has 13 big bots, lvl 7 has 27 big bots)

don't take my numbers seriously, just examples. this is some of my thoughts regarding that.
many people have many valid points.

BUT. allow DL a fresh start. we'll see where it goes.

Hey guys!

Just think about it:
There's a lot of very skilled players that don't want to fight!
If they don't want to fight, even if they are in high PvP area, there will be no war!

If someone wants to try PvP looting he has to be very very very stronger than others ( and I don't think that one or two looters can be stronger than the power of a society)

PvP will create indirectly societies of looters and protecting societies!
Looters will have to buy thousands of SP to stay stronger than other players and same for guardians!

High armor, strong weapons, tons of components! This will help a lot the economy of the game!
Sorry if you don't like PvP but this is a great way to create new jobs, to give some society a goal, etc....

And little players don't need the very very high and rare components to make money: little components and stones will be really needed a lot, so they can survive!

Don't forget that PvP is shooting at a person so:
Big waste of ammo
Big decay on weapons and armor
High possibility to loot little value things!

All the miss when shooting will be a DL pure gain!
Even if PvP isn't really what you like this will make the game a stronger economy and gameplay!

(The goal of this game is to be realistic and in reality there would be a lot of looters if there was an apocalypse!)

Oh and one more thing: All the games are elitist! Even if there is no PvP, you really think that a low skilled player can kill a FR12?
Skilled player will be the only ones that kill the big heavy mobs that gives rare loots!

Adding a PvP area will only add a little thing more and will give some goals for societies!

Cheers  all