Author Topic: Question about Geology skill  (Read 3913 times)

Offline Caliopus "Calio" Jones

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Question about Geology skill
« on: May 15, 2013, 12:54:18 pm »
Only been playing ~6 months, so there's a lot more that I don't know than I do. 
 
Chipped out my mining skills (geology, nature, geo propecting, landscape, etc) so I can keep on picking and raise the picking skills that also raise mining high enough to get past 82 freq and on to ores that are actually worth mining. My Geology was at 5 when I chipped out to go back to geology 3 and I've since added enough to geology that it would probably be ~7 if I put the chip back in (and it will probably be a lot more when the time actually comes to put the chips back in).  I notice on the wiki that geology skill only applies to picking and to no other skill. 
 
So, my question is: when the time comes to put the chips back in, what is the point of unblocking geology once 5 is completed? Since there is no advantage thatI I can see to spending sau on training geology to 6, 7 and however much higher my chips will potentially make possible, why spend the sau on doing so?
 
Geology 3 opens geo prospecting, 5 is already paid for with sau, but why go higher?
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Offline Bold "Bertram" Blanshard

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Re: Question about Geology skill
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2013, 02:09:43 pm »
I think you are right - Geology is only used in Picking, and is therefore valueless once you have unlocked Geol. Prospecting.
I have chipped out Strength, Nature, Geology and Landscape Comprehension, and not yet Geol. Prospecting, but I hope the bugs in the underground mining will be fixed in the next update so I will then chip Nature back in.
Looking at the limited skill overlap, I don't think Picking will raise the UG mining profession very quickly. I've done some UG mining in NU to start getting those skills.
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Offline The "Fifth" Entity

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Re: Question about Geology skill
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2013, 02:36:50 pm »
Geology and Knowledge give you the ability to identify ores and alloys.
There's many levels to the ores: NU stones, Sar stones, yellow scanner ores, green and red scanner ores. I believe every frequency is a separate "ore class".
It's not known what skill (or their combination) exactly contributes how much to this ability.


U can test i yoursef however, ask around if anybody has some gold to show you in the trade window (no need to actually trade anything). Alternatively, you can try to look it up on the market. If there's some gold up for sale, see if the actual ore itself is displayed as "Gold" (with the corresponding icon), or simply as "Unknown ore".
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Offline Bold "Bertram" Blanshard

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Re: Question about Geology skill
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2013, 03:23:38 pm »
Your first and third sentences contradict. How can this be tested without a lot of chipping?
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Offline Zaelkaer "Allfather" Vampyre

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Re: Question about Geology skill
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2013, 04:07:18 pm »
I'm not sure if i understood correctly, but Firstly, if you are just keeping your skill at a level by chipping out, and you dont think you need that skill, then that skill SNIs that you are creating becomes a source of income for you because it is probable that someone may buy it for awd on the market. Secondly, you should never let your skills be blocked if you have a choice. Either 1, chip out, or 2, unblock. Either one, to continue making the skill, and also blocked skills effect your sau gains. If you have blocked skills in a "profession" then using that profession, you will get less sau than if they were unblocked.
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Offline Bold "Bertram" Blanshard

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Re: Question about Geology skill
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2013, 06:15:03 pm »
I've seen Geology SNI's on the market, but for the reasons already given, I think they are worthless. In fact Geology has negative value because you have to keep chipping it out to keep picking.

But interesting that if a skill is blocked, Sau gain is reduced.
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Offline Caliopus "Calio" Jones

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Re: Question about Geology skill
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2013, 11:32:28 pm »
I'm not sure if i understood correctly, but Firstly, if you are just keeping your skill at a level by chipping out, and you dont think you need that skill, then that skill SNIs that you are creating becomes a source of income for you because it is probable that someone may buy it for awd on the market. Secondly, you should never let your skills be blocked if you have a choice. Either 1, chip out, or 2, unblock. Either one, to continue making the skill, and also blocked skills effect your sau gains. If you have blocked skills in a "profession" then using that profession, you will get less sau than if they were unblocked.

I didn't think the geology SNIs were worth anything simply because anyone and everyone can get to lev 3 (to unlock geo prospecting) easily themselves. But thank you for confirming something I suspected but was never sure about.  When I was still fighting slugroaches to get the first few levels of avoids I noticed that sau gain rate seemed to drop off when I had blocked skills (a little with 1 blocked, more with 2 blocked and a lot when I had 3 blocked - I was trying to be efficient about making the runs to sar and was waiting till I had 3 to do before I went there).
 
I guess there is also the point that the fifth entity makes about being to identify ores with higher geology levels, so I guess there is value to raising the skill beyond the level 5 I already unlocked when I insert the SNIs back in.
 
BTW, can anyone tell me exactly which picking skills raise scanning/mining also.  I've been guessing that geo prospecting, landscape interpretation, general tools and nature do. Am I correct? Are there any others that contribute significantly?
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Offline The "Fifth" Entity

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Re: Question about Geology skill
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2013, 05:15:30 am »
The brave new generation! :)

O well, the game is pretty much self-explanatory, all u need is just a little trial-and-error testing.
Besides, this is the fun part, it's much more interesting to figure it out on your own. Sry, no more spoilers, keep it up guys! ;)
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Offline Event "Janе" Horizon

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Re: Question about Geology skill
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2013, 07:20:06 am »
BTW, can anyone tell me exactly which picking skills raise scanning/mining also.  I've been guessing that geo prospecting, landscape interpretation, general tools and nature do. Am I correct? Are there any others that contribute significantly?

A rough guide can be found here: http://jaws.99k.org/
or you can search the forum where there are full lists.
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Offline Zaelkaer "Allfather" Vampyre

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Re: Question about Geology skill
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2013, 07:37:27 am »
About the sau, it's true :) a few months back i bought a few chips that caused me to be have several blocked skills in my medic profession. So, what did i do.. I had taken my careful time to get hka5 to 100% sau rate, figured oh i would chip out again when it was at 90% (just wanted sau from the hk, not interested in the hk skills so much anymore) and then viwala.. with 100% sau rate, i was making 1-2 sau per use.. i knew something was wrong, so i asked the devs about it in a helpdesk ticket and they explained to me what no one else ever told me haha. after having the skills unblocked i made between 4-6 sau each use and often enough, more than that.

well, stage 15 is a 50% sni, i think. so why not unblock to there, and from then on out, chip out at stage 15. 1awd. I am CONfident that you can sell a 50% geology sni for a bit more than 1awd :) if anything i'll buy it for 2awd, you'll make a 100% profit ;)
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Offline Caliopus "Calio" Jones

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Re: Question about Geology skill
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2013, 09:59:32 pm »
Hmmm. The Jaws.99k.org link event horizon posted seems to indicate that geology affects metal and mineral mining, not just picking. Can anyone confirm that that they got geology skill from mining?
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Offline dale "dalewj" ofj

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Re: Question about Geology skill
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2013, 10:49:28 pm »
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Offline The "Fifth" Entity

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Re: Question about Geology skill
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2013, 05:45:16 am »
Zwarkinator's version is very accurate but it only reflects the existing professions, ug mining doesn't have it.
Jane's (EventHorizon) version has UG mining and it reports Geology - unlike any other research i've seen before.
Suppose the difference is in methodology - all ug mining related tests i've seen so far simply logged the skillgains while ug mining ("what comes out has to go in"-logic). Jane might have used a different method thou, i.e. chipping in/out and recording the changes in scanner efficiency, maybe? If so, that would explain a different result.
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Offline Bold "Bertram" Blanshard

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Re: Question about Geology skill
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2013, 08:39:04 am »
The UGM Professions are certainly screwed up. In-game, and on Wiki, there is only one, whereas Jane deduced in Alpha that there are separate ones for Metal and Mineral. But AWS doesn't give skill gains for Metal/Mineral Science or Metallurgy/Mineralogy, so we are back to one. Refining of course has two. It seems the developers can't decide which way to do it.

Are there any other Professions where the skills you get for using it are different from those which contribute to the Profession level? It would be an odd design if that were true.

I haven't had any Geology whilst UG mining, so I have to think Jane is simply wrong to include it. But I haven't had any Landscape Comprehension either.

I put in a Helpdesk ticket about the skills just after the last update, which has had no response for 2 months. I do hope the developers make their minds up in the next update, and then we can re-measure things.
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Offline Andrei "Andrei" Popov

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Re: Question about Geology skill
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2013, 08:58:32 am »
Quote
I put in a Helpdesk ticket about the skills just after the last update, which has had no response for 2 months.


It's secret information, players need tp explore AWS world theirselves.
While UG mining, you gain Landscape Comprehension, but never Geology.
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